Bergen.

[shubi]

I obsered over the years a very popular convention BERGEN. there are statement like this u dont play Bergen u dont invite me. there are also very strong feeling of acceptance among bridge players. Now let me say what i found out. Another sit there were discussion how often Bergen shows up in a session, some of the site experts stated 5 times out of 24 hands. So i joined the group and stated I played last 2 tourney but no bergen bid and will follow it up with next 4 sessions. Result no bergan in 60 hands. now in BBO i played a TD/ partner, we played for 5 6 weeks BERGEN did not came. On 6th week pd bid 1s i bid 3d pass. Later pd saw my hand and commented sry all these time we played Bergen never came so i FORGOT.

[hrothgar]

I obsered over the years a very popular convention BERGEN. there are statement like this u dont play Bergen u dont invite me. there are also very strong feeling of acceptance among bridge players. Now let me say what i found out. Another sit there were discussion how often Bergen shows up in a session, some of the site experts stated 5 times out of 24 hands. So i joined the group and stated I played last 2 tourney but no bergen bid and will follow it up with next 4 sessions. Result no bergan in 60 hands. now in BBO i played a TD/ partner, we played for 5 6 weeks BERGEN did not came. On 6th week pd bid 1s i bid 3d pass. Later pd saw my hand and commented sry all these time we played Bergen never came so i FORGOT.

Its important to define terms precisely: In this case, what does it mean for a Bergen raise to "come up"?

 

Bergen raises have a significant impact on a constructive bidding structure. Lets assume that you have an auction like

 

1♠ - (P) - 3♣ where 3♣ shows 4+ card spade support and sufficient vales for a constructive raise. This bid provides a lot of information. However, its just as important to note that the failure to make a Bergen raise conveys also provides useful data.

 

If you chose to play Bergen raises, auctions like

 

1♠ - (P) - 2♠

1♠ - (P) - 1NT

 

even

 

1♠ - (P) - P

 

all change significantly.

 

For what its worth, if North gets dealt a 5+ card Spade suit, the odds that South has exactly 4 card spade support is roughly 15%.

[shubi]

Here is a very funny incident about Bergen i find. I am playing in a tourney with a friend of mine the bidding goes 1s by my pd i bid 3c 6 to 9 and 4s, pd thinks for a while and passes. I am stuck with 3 2 club fit, its mp so 1 bottom is 1 bottom. After the hand over i asked pd you canot recognize BERGEN. He said on top of ur cc you marked jump shift wk, so 1s 3c is jump shift week. I like to win and also have fum I said ok and changed my cc right of way.

[jdonn]

1♠ - (P) - 2♠

1♠ - (P) - 1NT

 

even

 

1♠ - (P) - P

 

all change significantly.

How does the last auction change at all, let alone significantly?

[chicken]

if 3♠ answer is constructive for example u have no chance to PRE the opps with a 3♠ bid, and get doubled for 11000000 :) actually i am a more or less believer in the LAW so if pd doesnt have the tool i probably tend to react differently to opps interference.

[kenberg]

I am not a great fan of Bergen raises but I offer the following more for amusemnt than as proof of anything.

 

Playing in an online ACBL imp tourney, vul against not, I opened 1H:

 

1H Pass 2H Pass

Pass X Pass Pass

Pass

 

 

Amazingly, dummy tabled (or is that screened?) five card support. They beat me one, should have beat me two. They are cold for 6S. The only pair who I saw that even got to 4S did so over a preemptive 3H. So my -200 was good, -500 from proper defense would have been poor, -800 for 3HX a disaster.

 

 

It was a bit of a freak and I am not claiming vindication of my Bergen skepticism.

 

As to how often it comes up? To me the most useful Bergen bid is the 1M-3M preempt. It comes up often enough. More often than the 1M-4M preempt, for example. I play Bergen with those who like it. I haven't found that it produces miracles or disasters all that often. I'm just one of those who thinks the fewer artificial bids we play the fewer I forget.

[mike777]

Wow in defense of Bergen, it is tough to compare hands where the opp are cold for 6s and no one bids it and yet you go for minus 800 in a ten card heart fit at the three level.

 

Funny enough I think the 1 major -3 major bid comes up the least and that is even assuming opening one of a major on crap, opening it only on 14 hcp would really surprise me. :)

[mike777]

Here is a very funny incident about Bergen i find. I am playing in a tourney with a friend of mine the bidding goes 1s by my pd i bid 3c 6 to 9 and 4s, pd thinks for a while and passes. I am stuck with 3 2 club fit, its mp so 1 bottom is 1 bottom. After the hand over i asked pd you canot recognize BERGEN. He said on top of ur cc you marked jump shift wk, so 1s 3c is jump shift week. I like to win and also have fum I said ok and changed my cc right of way.

hahha rofl, well he did have a heck of a comeback. :)

[kenberg]

Wow in defense of Bergen, it is tough to compare hands where the opp are cold for 6s and no one bids it and yet you go for minus 800 in a ten card heart fit at the three level.

 

Funny enough I think the 1 major -3 major bid comes up the least and that is even assuming opening one of a major on crap, opening it only on 14 hcp would really surprise me. :)

I would call that particular hand the anti-proof. I don't understand my rho's pass of the double at all. But I didn't understand how they let me out for down one either. Actually on the hand I watched (it was the last hand of the session) where they reached 4S the auction began 1H-X-3H, with 3H alerted as showing heart support.

 

Pass me the bottle, I'll have some of that.

[Flame]

Maybe you didnt count the times when you had only 3 cards support but bergen effects it too.

[whereagles]

FTL > bergen

 

'nuff said :)

[Guest Jlall]

FTL > bergen

 

'nuff said :)

ftl ftw!

[Elianna]

I take it that ftl doesn't stand for faster than light? Have I been watching too much BG?

[mike777]

I take it that ftl doesn't stand for faster than light? Have I been watching too much BG?

Not until 2008 now, it seems. Glad starbuck made it back. :) Whatever happened to that baby, they never talk about it and what is up with those 4 Cylons?

[whereagles]

What? Battlestar Galactica is having a 3rd comeback? Another flop in the making? :)

[han]

I like Bergen. But I like other things better so I don't play it.

[hrothgar]

I take it that ftl doesn't stand for faster than light?  Have I been watching too much BG?

Not until 2008 now, it seems. Glad starbuck made it back. :) Whatever happened to that baby, they never talk about it and what is up with those 4 Cylons?

I was pretty sure that Chief Tyrol's Wife was a Cylon. She seemed so innocuous and had one of two babies on the show. In retrospect, the chief was also an obvious choice given his visions.

 

Seeing Starbuck show up all dressed in white was an interesting throwback to the original series.

[mike777]

edited

 

 

Understand Flash Gordon should be coming back in the fall, that should be great.

[whereagles]

Flash Gordon also? He's like.... 1000 years old :P

[mike777]

Flash Gordon also? He's like.... 1000 years old :P

Ok you are on Ming's list now, if you know who that is. :P

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming_the_Merciless

[SoTired]

I still haven't figured out why it is so difficult to tell a cylon from a human if cylons are robots. It makes the story line difficult for me to believe. Also, the episode extolling the virtues of suicide bombers and mentioned "jihad" in a positive sense kind of turned me off.

[shubi]

i am sure we all know everytime we use a conventation we give up a natural bid. for instace to adopt bergen's 1s 3s prem we have to incoporate JORDAN'S OR similar conventions. to give limit raise over opps dbl we must bid 2nt to limit raise, or cue bid over bid interferense. just a thought.

[mike777]

I still haven't figured out why it is so difficult to tell a cylon from a human if cylons are robots. It makes the story line difficult for me to believe. Also, the episode extolling the virtues of suicide bombers and mentioned "jihad" in a positive sense kind of turned me off.

Why not? What are robots made out of?

 

Good second point, If Jihad is a Holy War, can it be negative? What does negative mean?

[whereagles]

Flash Gordon also? He's like.... 1000 years old :)

Ok you are on Ming's list now, if you know who that is. :P

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming_the_Merciless

Dood, I saw that movie when it first came out, a million years ago :)

[Al_U_Card]

I am watching BG (2nd season) in french version. I never saw the 1st season (any language) but I did watch the original with LG, RH and DB way back when. In a recent episode, Richard Hatch is in the new version! Didn't Dirk Benedict play Starbuck in the original and RH was Apollo? (Or is my memeory that bad?) Not that I mind a somewhat hot but androgynous female in the Starbuck role......