The Ultimate Irony

[hrothgar]

I am really curious, Mike. With whom is the US at war and who started it? On what date was war declared?

 

1) radical islam

2) radical islam

3) do not know exact date, many years ago. More than 13 years ago, did you miss it?

I think that the whole war versus "radical Islam" was manufactured as a replacement for the great War against Communism.

 

Back in 1989 the Berlin Wall fell. By 1991, Yeltsin had been elected President of Russia.

The far right needed a new boogie man to manipulate folks like Mike. The "War against Radical Islam" is a frame mechanism that the far right dragged out of the close post 9-11 and is being projected backwards in time.

 

Please note: I don't dispute that fundamentalist Islam exists as a political force. However, I do dispute that its all that special. I think that the zealots that are attracted to this movement are motivated by forces other than religion. I think that issues like economic opportunity and political repression are the engines driving this movement. Today, these folks are migrating towards Islam as a means of protest, however, 20 years ago these same individuals who have gravitated towards secular movements like Ba'athism (or, for that matter Communism).

[Al_U_Card]

It certainly takes two to tango...let's see

 

christian right vs radical islam....................probably

 

shia vs sunni............................................definitely

 

terrorists vs whoever they are told to.........undoubtedly

 

neocons vs everyone or else.....................uh oh

 

 

every week on 24 I expect to see the blurb "torn from todays headlines" as all of the crazy paranoid government types seem to be less scary that the actual real-life wackos.

[mike777]

Ok I think we are at war with radical Islam. I know Bush and Lieberman, Guiliano(sp), and McCain think so.

 

I have no quotes about the leading Democrats. Winston do you know where Mrs. Clinton, Edwards or Obama stand on this issue? Do they just think it is phony or manufactured? I am not sure.

[pbleighton]

"I have no quotes about the leading Democrats. Winston do you know where Mrs. Clinton, Edwards or Obama stand on this issue? Do they just think it is phony or manufactured? I am not sure."

 

Your clear implication is that either someone agrees with Bush on "we are at war with radical Islam", or thinks there is no threat or a minimal threat. This is nonsense. You are trying to put your ideological opponents in your (poorly considered, IMO) linguistic box.

 

Peter

[Winstonm]

Ok I think we are at war with radical Islam. I know Bush and Lieberman, Guiliano(sp), and McCain think so.

 

I have no quotes about the leading Democrats. Winston do you know where Mrs. Clinton, Edwards or Obama stand on this issue? Do they just think it is  phony or manufactured? I am not sure.

Mike, I really don't know either. I am pretty much apolitical, having no affiliation or interest in either party, so I don't watch these items closely. It is hard not to know what Bush, Cheney, McCain, and Lieberman believe as it makes all the headlines.

 

My beliefs are in keeping with Richard's last post. I think it will not change anyone's mind, these debates, yet they are productive as it is always good to listen to opposing views - truth often lies in the middle of opposing views.

 

It is interesting to me that we both are of the approximate same age, thus both of us are products of the 1960s and 1970s, yet I emerged from those times with an absolute distrust of government and its power; time has done nothing to dissuade me from those beliefs.

 

I believe that power is a tantalizing drug, that after a small taste it is so intoxicating that only more of it will satisfy; I believe a relatively small group of like-minded individuals in seats of power are more dangerous to civilization and the American way of life than any foreign threat; I believe the ideological war in which we are trapped is whether we will sacrfice the basic tenets of our country to obtain a misguided sense of security; I believe that drunk on power, leaders will lie and deceive to justify their ambitions, and if that means creating a boogeyman as an enemy then one is created.

 

It seems I am not alone in my views. Consider these quotes:

 

Our country is now geared to an arms economy bred in an artificually induced psychosis of war hysteria and an incessant propaganda of fear.

~General Douglas MacArthur

 

 

What an immense mass of evil must result...from allowing men to assume the right of anticipating what may happen.~Leo Tolstoy

 

A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny.~Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

 

There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights.

 

~General Smedley Butler

 

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

 

~Voltaire

[luke warm]

It is interesting to me that we both are of the approximate same age, thus both of us are products of the 1960s and 1970s, yet I emerged from those times with an absolute distrust of government and its power; time has done nothing to dissuade me from those beliefs.

that sounds almost conservative, winston... how do you stand on the 2nd ammendment? iow, just how much do you mistrust gov't? as much as jefferson did? or madison?

[Winstonm]

It is interesting to me that we both are of the approximate same age, thus both of us are products of the 1960s and 1970s, yet I emerged from those times with an absolute distrust of government and its power; time has done nothing to dissuade me from those beliefs.

that sounds almost conservative, winston... how do you stand on the 2nd ammendment? iow, just how much do you mistrust gov't? as much as jefferson did? or madison?

My views on the second amendment are simple....there is nowhere in the wording that says "unless". However, it does state plainly "shall not be infringed."

 

Seems prettty clear-cut to me.

 

I don't consider myself either liberal or conservative - but I do side with the concept that government should be limited and personal freedoms cherished, but I realize that there are areas where a strong govenrment is necessay and areas where a limited government is better suited.

 

I like to think of myself as a realist, although I recognize we are all biased in one way or another, which is why I try to listen to opposing viewpoints and assess their weight - I might actually learn something.