Follow us home.

[mike777]

I think we agree on more than we disagree. I do think there are lessons to be learned and worth comparing against not only the Cold War but WWI and WWII as well as the numerous Indian wars or battles.

 

As I mentioned we will use and discard many tactics over the years, many will be looked back on as idiotic mistakes.

 

Mrs Clinton believes we are in a Global war on terror but I think many other Democratic leaders have their doubts.

 

As far as Iraq, I do not know if the surge is the best response or not but I do have my great fears if we pull out, we will just go back in very soon and it will somehow be worse. Many disagree but the debate is worthwhile.

 

btw yes I think almost all of us have forgotten Wilson and what he did during the war concerning civil rights.

[Winstonm]

btw yes I think almost all of us have forgotten Wilson and what he did during the war concerning civil rights.

 

I have always considered Wilson's presidency as the start of the "rot" of America, so to speak - a decided turning away from old ways toward new.

 

I also have my doubts and reservations about Iraq, and whether or it would indeed become a satellite state of Iran with dire consequences if the U.S. pulled out. I am not as overly fearful of Iran, though, as are many - the fundamentalist regime is a worry, but that is not all of Iran.

 

Still, with all my concerns, I still believe we should exit Iraq as we had no valid justifiable reason to invade in the first place, we have increased the terror threat with those actions, and the battle is truly a civil war that could spread thoughout the region. Iraq was an enemy before the invasion; the fact that if we leave that may well again be an enemy is no justification for staying, IMO.

[mike777]

"....no justification for staying, IMO. ..."

 

Fair enough, what is justification for staying?

What has to happen or you need to see to justify staying now, today?

[Winstonm]

"....no justification for staying, IMO. ..."

 

Fair enough, what is justification for staying?

What has to happen or you need to see to justify staying now, today?

I cannot imagine a justifiable reason any longer. At one point in time I believed we were obligated to stay and help sort out the mess that we created, but it seems obvious that none of the sides want us there any longer, and we seem to be feeding the chaos rather that helping it end.

 

Any argument tfor a justified reason is to me based on speculation about what may happen if we leave; it is subjective interpretation - it may be well-reasoned and even a likelihood, but is it still an educated guess. I can't respond to leaving or staying based on "what if" questions.

 

The simple fact (IMO )is at this point in time we are causing more harm than creating good by staying. I do not think it is in the U.S. interests to continue to struggle based on speculative consequences of leaving. There is no shame in a strategic retreat, no loss in regrouping and reconsidering alternatives.

[pbleighton]

btw yes I think almost all of us have forgotten Wilson and what he did during the war concerning civil rights.

 

Speak for yourself.

 

Peter

[mycroft]

This is unverified and may or may not be true.  But if it is true, then maybe we don't have to worry about them following us home - perhaps in a sense they are here already....there are many forms of terrorism.....

 

(underlined italics outline the unverified source.)

 

Last week, news broke that Provo School District had blacklisted students searching for a venue to hold their alternative commencement ceremony (in case you haven't been following this story, Dick Cheney was invited by BYU to speak at the official commencement).

 

Now BYU Alternative Commencement has received an email from a local businesswoman named Denise Harman, who claims that all BYU students participating in activities against Dick Cheney are being tracked by local businesses. "Many businesses are noting the names involved," she says.

 

Why are business tracking the names of soon to be graduating students? "You are being tagged as trouble makers and added to massive 'Do Not Hire' lists," says Denise Harman, who hires hundreds of graduates every year.

 

She adds curtly, "Just thought you should know that activities have consequences."

Hey Winston, that's just Free Speech at its finest.

 

Yes, opinions have consequences - and if you want to publicly make your opinion known, those who dislike your opinions can choose not to associate with you.

 

There is legal discrimination issues, but it's perfectly legal to discriminate on politics; after all, "We don't hire registered Democrats to work for the National Republican Party" seems like common sense.

 

If you believe that "I don't like the current Executive enough to boycott my commencement ceremony in protest", don't expect good service or job offers from those who think the Executive is doing a great job.

 

I'm sure there are places where an active and empassioned defence of one's beliefs (outside of work milieu) is a hiring plus (I know for a fact that I work at one).

 

Now, if the Government is limiting your access (and I believe no-fly lists that just "happen" to be enforced by Industry, but made up by your friends at the TSA, is very much the Government), that's a totally different game.

 

Michael.