What to do here?

[goobers]

You're fourth seat, holding

 

♠AKJTxxx ♥x ♦xx ♣9xx

 

Here's the auction:

 

(1♣) - x - p - ?

 

What do you bid?

 

I mean, the knee jerk reaction is that you want to be in 4♠. But wouldn't you also bid 4♠ with a holding like

 

♠AJT9x ♥Kxx ♦KJx ♣xx

 

So I guess my question is how you differentiate the two. If you don't bid 4♠ with the second holding, could you please explain how you would bid it (barring very special agreements or advanced conventions.)

[Guest Jlall]

The second hand is a routine cuebid. There's no rush to bid 4S with that hand. Whenever you have opening values you want to begin with a cuebid. Cuebidding then bidding to 4S later implies more HCP than a direct 4S.

 

An analogous situation is 1C p 1H p 1S P ? With a 4-6 9 count you may just bash 4S, and with a flat 13 count with 4S you should go through 2D 4th suit.

 

The first hand may just be too good to bid 4S though. 7 of them to go with 3 clubs (the right suit to have 3 of) means you need very little for slam. I would start with a cuebid with that hand too.

[firmit]

I agree with Jlall. Cue-bidding should always initiate an interesting hand that need further descriptive bids. A jump in a suit shows preference for that suit within the different ranges.

 

First hand, you got a 6 LTC opposite to your t/o overcalling partner. This should end up in game somewhere, most likely 4S, or even a slam. Depending on what partner bids after the cue-bid, I would show my one-suiter by jumping to game in spades on the next round. This should give partner a good picture of my hand as a strong one-suiter.

 

Second hand - also cue-bid followed by forcing bids (new suits). Though 4S is most likely the contract here also.

 

I like all jump-bids to be more "pre-emptive-like" than strong in this situation. Therefor, I do not like jumping directly to game in neiter of these two hands.

[inquiry]

Well, I will disagree with the first two answers to this thread. A cue-bid is typically either michaels (clearly they are not using it as such) or game force. Neither of these hands have game force values.

 

A jump bid is typically intermediate (something like 13 to 16 points) and a good 6+ suit. The first hand has the good suit, but even counting distribution lacks the stregnth, the second hand approaches this value, but the suit is not long enough.

 

With the first hand I bid 1 or 3♠ depending upon the vulnerability, with the second hand I double then plan to rebid ♠s.

[blackshoe]

Your double will lead to a director call. The question is how to respond to partner's takeout double with those hands, not what to do in direct seat. :B

[thebiker]

Lets assume you want bid 4S direct, but feel you have a little bit to spare?

Make a jump cue of 3C, then when you bid 4S, this should tell partner that you really do have a good spade suit, not some junky long spade suit. Of course if you think partner wont understand this exotic sequence - just respond 4S

 

regards

the biker

[inquiry]

Your double will lead to a director call. The question is how to respond to partner's takeout double with those hands, not what to do in direct seat. :B

Ah... i thought it was 1C-P-P-? (I read the 4th seat part as two passes to me... my bad)...

 

Ok, I bid 2♣ on both....

[jtfanclub]

Do you play Roman Keycard?

 

If so, were I you, I'd bodyslam the first hand into 4♠. It's true, I'd also do that with 6 spades, and the hand is a bit stronger than partner should expect, but nothing is perfect.

 

One reason for not cue-bidding is that if you do have an *11* card spade fit, opener may very easily be sitting on a large pile of clubs. After an auction of: 1C-X-P-2C-4C, for example, you may not have the tools for figuring out where you should be.

 

So why Roman Keycard? Because there's lots of hands where partner won't want to be in slam if you have Axxxxx but does want to be there across AKxxxx, and he won't know what to do if you show one ace.

 

Several people who are a whole lot better than me have already said that they'd bid 2♣, and I'm sure that's the by-the-book bid. I think it just depends upon how good you think your partner is. My gut says, if you didn't realize the second hand was a 2♣ bid, you shouldn't be using the cue bid when you have any alternative. And 4♠ on the first hand is an alternative, even if it's not one that the experts would choose.

 

For now, just agree with your partner- a cue bid (2♣ in this case) shows an opening count, a jump to game shows a hand that could have opened 2 or 3 of the suit. It's simple, it's easy to remember, and while it's not *as* effective as learning the complete ins and outs of cue bids, you really won't lose much.

[SoTired]

What is commonly played is a single jump shows about 8-11 hcp and is game-invitational.

A q-bid shows either invitational with both majors or GF.

Double jumps (3S in this situation) are preemptive with long spades and weak hand. (Something like KQxxxx xx xxx xx).

Triple jumps are similar to double jumps but a little stronger. I think this hand over qualifies for a 4S jump. I would start with a q-bid. But 4S is not unreasonable.

[goobers]

Ah, thanks everyone for the replies.

 

I've been playing a cue as something like inv+, asking takeout doubler to choose the suit, usually a major, but to isolate it to this situation is restrictive, I understand.