jim420 Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 You hold: [hv=d=e&v=n&s=sk754hkdq6cakj965]133|100|Scoring: IMPP 1♣ P ?[/hv] LHO deals, p opens 1♣ in front of u, what do u bid? 3NT? 4NT? 1♠? 5♣? or others? EDIT: typo corrected :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 (Sorry about the initial reply. Mistook my Clubs for Diamonds) I'd start with a forcing club raise. (Ideally, I'd like to be able to bid 2♣) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim420 Posted February 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 should be me who should say sorry, copied out from a lin file and typed in sequence, thus resulting in clubs changing into diamonds, now corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 The answer to this question depends upon the tools that you have available and the agreed limitations on those tools. A forcing club raise might make sense, unless you play that a forcing club raise denies a four-card major, and only if you have a forcing club raise. A 1♠ response makes sense if you have the tools to later agree clubs and force game. All-in-all, tho, it seems that a slow approach makes sense on this hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianshark Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 1♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firmit Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 Depending on what 1C means for me. If 1C is 2+, then 1S is textbook-correct. If partner shows 3-4 card support in spades, it would be hard for me to convince him of my clubs. If 1C is 3+, there are more trumph in clubs than in spades. I would bid a forcing club raise - in either case I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 2D game forcing club raise, no problems, yet.(CrissCross) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 If we've agreed to play criss cross I've forgotten it - keep it simple 1♠ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 1S. 5C is only an option, if you have ruled out 3NT and 6C. 3NT: hearts / diamonds are open,4NT: you have no clue, if partner has a min / max opener With kind regardsMarlowe PS: Even if I had a forcing club raiseavailable, I would simply bid 1S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 If we've agreed to play criss cross I've forgotten it - keep it simple 1♠ I just hope we can show a game force in clubs later, without any trouble, but I am worried after one spade. If partner does not rebid 1nt now or we do not play game force checkback, hmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 1♠. Will bid clubs later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 If you play inverted minors, a 2♣ response is certainly possible. At the table I would start with 1♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinvent77 Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 This hand seems hard to bid if you don't play any conventions. Suppose you play standard and start with 1♠ what would you rebid after 1♣ - 1♠ - 1NT? or after 1♣ - 1♠ - 2♣? Take a pessimist view and bid 3NT, bid 4NT and hope partner understands is quantitative rather than respond 5♦ with one ace? I think I'll bid 3NT. Clearly we need either Inverted minors or some Checkback Stayman. As an aside, do people respond 2♣ (forcing) with a 4-card major and game-forcing values? It's seems reasonable to me, but the books I've read all explicitly say no 4-card major is allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 I would respond 2♣ when holding a four card major when I was going to make a very strong slam try (or force to slam if we are not off quick tricks). I said I would bid 1♠ with this hand because despite the good club fit, it is not enough to force to slam (I will be making a slam try on a lot of auctions). I play xyz so I have no problem over a 2♣ or 1NT rebid (do you really think partner is going to rebid 2♣ on this hand?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinvent77 Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 do you really think partner is going to rebid 2♣ on this hand? No, of course not. And now that I think of it (only a little tough :) ), if he does, I could bid 4♣ so not really a problem after all. What after a 1NT rebid? BTW xyz is a marvelously mysterious sounding name for a bridge convention ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 BTW xyz is a marvelously mysterious sounding name for a bridge convention ... xyz stands for 1x-1y-1z-then both minors (2C and 2D) are "forcing". See for example, this article at the part starting both minors forcing. What pro's play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goobers Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 I thought this convention was called 2-way NMF or 2-way checkback? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 No, 2 way checkback is a bit different from XYZ, but they are close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 I thought this convention was called 2-way NMF or 2-way checkback? I am not much for formal termnology, but these three agreements are essentially the same thing, but I believe there maybe some small differences... 2-way NMF, is 2 way new minor forcing, so I take this to mean both minors have been unbid (new minor). If one has been bid, then only the other is forcing. 2-way check back is essentially xyz, I think, but perhaps with a little difference. If memory serves me correctly, 2 way check back is after 1x-1y-1NT only. xyz, is often played after any 1x-1y-1z auction, that can include pass or double (negative) by responder if opponents bid, for example, and 1z can be 1S or 1H. So in xyz... 1C-(1H)-DBL-(Pass)1S-(Ps)-2C/2D <<---- is still xyz... although FEW play this, some do. Also, two way checkback as written up in bridgebase online 2/1 advance is a little different from xyz as describe by the various authorities... But again, for most part xyz is the almost identical to 2 way checkback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 No, 2 way checkback is more limited, only after nt rebid and 2clubs does not force 2d as many play in XYZ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 Raising clubs with a 4-card major makes a lot of sense to me. If you start with spades, you need a way to show clubs forcingly in the next round. Playing Pavlicek's method (described here by Hannie as "New Suit Invitational") helps, but if partner raises spades on what might be a 3-card, it can become muddy. Dutch experts Brulleman/Wijma play inverted minors raise with 4-card support and a 4-card in a major (or even both majors). But they need a GF hand to raise. I think this is related to the auction:1m-2m2NT-?If responder has an invitational hand with a 4-card major, you may be playing 2NT when you have a fit in a major suit. I suppose you could agree that an inverted minors denies a 4-card major unless you have GF values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 FYI -- an approach that works well for this hand and that I prefer: 1♣-P-2♣ is either GF and artificial (no 5-card major), or club fit and invitational+. Opener rebids one-under a four-card major if he has one, or 2♠ without a major, 2NT with balanced (and appropriate for range), 3♣ with a club-diamond reverse hand, 3♦/♥/♠ solo splinter, 3NT balanced higher range (usually go through 2♠). On this one, if Opener bids 2♥ (spades), great! Bid 2♠ to agree on the 4-4 spade fit and start cuebidding. If partner bids 2♦ (hearts), you can bid 2♠ (in case he is 44 in the majors). If he also has a spade fit, he will probably agree spades at 3♠ (or some picture jump or splinter) and you are again cuebidding. If partner bids 2♠ or 2NT, 3♣ by you would be invitational only. So, you can bid 3♥, agreeing clubs as the focus, GF, isolating a diamond hole, and either NT probe or slam probe. If partner bids 3♣+, you are off to a grand most likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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