mike777 Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 AJ92...932...K62....K42 Is this hand worth showing a 3 card limit raise in hearts, if so why? T84....KQJT7...AQ7....T3 Is this hand worth accepting the 3 card limit raise, if so why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badmonster Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Am I missing something? Aren't they both flat and minimum and... somewhat lacking in charm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 1. Yes, in spite of the shape, because of the prime cards.2. Not unless you open very light. A balanced 12 count is a minimum which shouldn't accept for pairs who open normally. The trump suit is nice but doesn't make up the difference. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miron Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 1) The hand is definitely worth limit raise (even if it would be slightly weaker)2) No, the limit raise should be passed. Nothing worth interrest, except already told issues: 5 hearts and 12 HCP. If this would be enough for partner to bid game, he would bid it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 1 Yes.2 Not for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miron Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 You played 2♥ or 3♥ and the result was 170?If so, it has 50% * 75% = 38% and even this is lucky (you are missing the ♥A instead of ♠A...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 AJ92...932...K62....K42 Is this hand worth showing a 3 card limit raise in hearts, if so why? T84....KQJT7...AQ7....T3 Is this hand worth accepting the 3 card limit raise, if so why? 1.Yes2.No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted February 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 ok why is this 9 ltc hand, 4333 shape with no heart honours a 3 card limit raise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 ok why is this 9 ltc hand, 4333 shape with no heart honours a 3 card limit raise? The 4 controls certainly help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 ok why is this 9 ltc hand, 4333 shape with no heart honours a 3 card limit raise? Although I would admittedly never follow my gut on this in practice, I agree with this thought completely. This looks like a high-end constructive raise. That's probably wrong, but I also strongly dislike the flat pattern, K-enpty thirds, and lack of any trump honors. This might even be a fair hand for a 1♠ call. I cannot imagine accepting with the opened hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 You have 11 HCP but 4333 distribution so deduct a point, but if that leaves you on the fance you have prime controls and the J is in your long suit and 9's are better than 2's so I'd give a 3 card limit raise. I'd pass any limit raise with this decent 5332 12 HCP. Game is against the odds here. .. neilkaz .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 1. Yes. Its 4333, but its mostly prime. 2. I'd pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 YesNo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Hi, unclear, but I will surely invite game, the alternative to the limit raise, wouldbe to sell the hand as 10-12 bal. Playing forcing NT, I would sell the hand as 3 card limit raise, in case partner showsa 6 card suit, else I would bid 2NT. Partner has a minimum opener, there is no reason to accept an invitation. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 1. Yes, but only just. I wouldn't object to a constructive 2major (some systems don't allow a "7-10 3-card raise" in which case I would certainly show it as a limit raise). 2. Nowhere close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianshark Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Yes, easy limit raise. No, easy pass... and worry that your not too high already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTired Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 1) yes, 11 hcp, 3-card support2) No - If you accept with this one, just say you accept all invites. This hand is min opener, 5332, even the 2-10's are worthless because not connected. Good rule - with 12-13 hcp, don't accept unless you have a singleton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 AJ92...932...K62....K42 Is this hand worth showing a 3 card limit raise in hearts, if so why? T84....KQJT7...AQ7....T3 Is this hand worth accepting the 3 card limit raise, if so why? I'd bid 1♠...I'd much rather play in a 4-4 spade fit than a 5-3 heart fit when the 3 card hand has no ruffing value. Besides, the AJ9x needs some help, and partner can better evaluate his hand with that bid. If I had a 4 card minor, I'd bid 3♥. It's not a question of strength, just where I'd rather play. And if my partner accepted the limit raise...well, I wouldn't bother with limit raises any more. What would be the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 ok why is this 9 ltc hand, 4333 shape with no heart honours a 3 card limit raise? LTC works best when there is a 9+ card trump fit and both sides have 4+ trumps.LTC is much less accurate on other hands. If you don't LR when you have 11 HCP, then opener will have to invite on all sorts of hands that he shouldn't bid on. For every making game you reach, you will go down in 3M/4M several times when you could have made 2M. If opener doesn't change his inviting style based on "partner routinely has 10-11 HCP for a single raise" then you will miss many good games. IMO a Drury-like convention should also be used by UPHs to show this hand type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dake50 Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 Closer to 3NT than 4H. Limit BAL 3-support raise in your fit scheme? If 9 tricks are the limit I want to try for a game bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 ok why is this 9 ltc hand, 4333 shape with no heart honours a 3 card limit raise? Even the few loser-trick-counting-experts that I know like aces and kings. Why don't you step down from your loser-trick-count for a second and try to evaluate hands? You won't get better at it by adding the same numbers every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 ok why is this 9 ltc hand, 4333 shape with no heart honours a 3 card limit raise? Hi, having a bal. hand, one should try tocount cover cards, for bal. hands thisworks better. You have 3 cover cards, except in the case thatpartner has a single opposite one of your kings. A standard opener has 7 looser, you cover 3,this means you should have play for the 3 level. Wih kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double ! Posted February 15, 2007 Report Share Posted February 15, 2007 The usual way, playing 2/1 or 1NT forcing (or semiforcing-yuck) to bid this hand is to respond 1NT followed by 3H to show invitational values and 3-card support. AND, IMO, this is one of the worst features of the forcing NT structure. I 100% agree that there needs to be a drury-like way to show this type of holding by an UPH. Some are playing that 2C responses can include hands like this as well as balanced hands and hands with club suits. This seems to be the way to go. I just would like more info on opener's rebid structure. But, I don't see any reason to not just rebid a la reverse drury. DHL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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