emelnl Posted December 25, 2003 Report Share Posted December 25, 2003 As a kibitzer sometimes it isnt possible 2 talk the players. I understand that private chat is forbidden, but public chat at the table sh be allowed. Is it possible to change the options in this way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerardo Posted December 26, 2003 Report Share Posted December 26, 2003 Yes, at director's will.However, there is a lot to be said for kibs to be silent, in special if kibs talk in languages not understood by all players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emelnl Posted December 26, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2003 Within a tournament u can have seceral options i guess, but its irritated that i even cant say hello (back) 2 someone who is in some tournament, i am not. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csdenmark Posted December 26, 2003 Report Share Posted December 26, 2003 A G R E E - It is very annoying. I really don't understand all those who like to organize tournaments for potential cheaters they need to restrict normal social contacts. - Maybe especially I don't understand that people are so eager to play in tournaments that they accept to be deprived basic rights! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uday Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 It might just be that the default is allow-spec-chat.Maybe we should change that to "Allow Silent" - this will force the TD to explicitly allow specs to chat to players. I'll mention to FG uday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 maybe for normal table play as well--let the default by kib silent? Am just relaying some comments bbo people tell me :) Rain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallway Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 I stand to be corrected, of course, but what I think emelnl is saying - is that as the TD I should not be permitted to choose to make it so that the Kibitzers cannot talk publicly to the table in play. The software gives me that choice and so I will exercise my right to make that choice. For all BIL events I shall always select the option that denies Kibitzers the ability to talk to the tables. Allow Kibs Silent. I allow Kibitzers for two reasons :(a) It gives their fellow members the chance to watch their peers in action and , hopefully, they will decide that they too can do this and will enter next time.(:) It gives my member's Mentors the opportunity to watch their proteges in action, to make notes etc. to better advise them when they next hold a mentoring session with them back in the BIL. These events are Tournaments !! NOT Social Gatherings - for social gatherings the members can open their own tables and/or chatrooms where ever and when ever they like. The Directors who give up their freetime to run these tournaments for my members do so in order to Help my members by giving the members the opportunity to test themselves (and all that they have learned from the many teachers who strive to improve the members bridge playing skills ) by playing in a competitive enviroment. That means applying themselves , focusing on what they are doing - not having their concentration broken by unsolicited comments from the kibitzers - even if it is well meaning ! Besides which , IMO, it would be grossly discourteous of me (as a kibitzer) to disrupt the play of three strangers in order to address a personal comment to a fourth . If an Event warrants comments from the Gallery I will invite , then enable as a Director guest speaker/s to address them. I will be entirely happy if the default is changed to Allow Kibs Silent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csdenmark Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 No Maureen! I think emelnl's statement - and at least mine was - not about the tourney and communication between players/kibitzers. It is about normal social contacts. You log on and a friend playing in a tourney can say hello to you - but you cannot say hello back. Software disallow chat with players is the information you get trying to say hello to a friend from anywhere, lobby, library, table etc. An abnormal situation I think and very unfriendly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rain Posted December 28, 2003 Report Share Posted December 28, 2003 A tournament usually implies a more serious, intense play experience. Probably players are more focused, and may not be nice to disturb them too much by private messaging when they are playing tournaments. (Personal experience) There are other means to cheat if someone really wants to. Telephone, ICQ, easy examples. But why should bbo make it easier by enabling private chat? Normal social contact : If tournament hosts of the particular tournament they are in allows kibs to chat to table, and you badly feel that you need to return a greeting, just go to table and say hi. If not, I'm pretty sure any friend will understand that you are not returning greeting because you can't, and not because you are being unfriendly. In fact my opinion is kibs shouldn't be allowed to talk to table at all during tournaments, but this is up to individual tournament hosts. Many reasons, such as general distraction, language differences, unintentional chat to table that may convey unauthorised information, etc... Rain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csdenmark Posted December 28, 2003 Report Share Posted December 28, 2003 A tournament usually implies a more serious, intense play experience. Probably players are more focused, and may not be nice to disturb them too much by private messaging when they are playing tournaments. (Personal experience) There are other means to cheat if someone really wants to. Telephone, ICQ, easy examples. But why should bbo make it easier by enabling private chat? Normal social contact : If tournament hosts of the particular tournament they are in allows kibs to chat to table, and you badly feel that you need to return a greeting, just go to table and say hi. If not, I'm pretty sure any friend will understand that you are not returning greeting because you can't, and not because you are being unfriendly. In fact my opinion is kibs shouldn't be allowed to talk to table at all during tournaments, but this is up to individual tournament hosts. Many reasons, such as general distraction, language differences, unintentional chat to table that may convey unauthorised information, etc... Rain I really doubt tourneys are more serious bridge than play in main club. To me it looks like many simply play that many tourney's that they really are just another kind of social play. They register for any kind of set up available. A few are more selective - and there I think you may be right! If a person playing in a tourney says hello to me - that person has not only accepted to be distracted but has initiated himself. - Thats the situation I am talking about and nothing else. I am not arranging tourney's for cheaters - I dont like them and I hope they try to avoid me. I therefore have no technical restrictions for tourney's I arrange - but don't be mistaken. If a person is breaking normal standards for personal relations or fair competiition - they will quickly face a hard time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotShot Posted December 28, 2003 Report Share Posted December 28, 2003 A tournament usually implies a more serious, intense play experience. Probably players are more focused, and may not be nice to disturb them too much by private messaging when they are playing tournaments. (Personal experience) ... Rain You really think so? Most of the Online Tournaments played, do not have anything to do with serious Bridge. Lets say ther is a 8 Board 4 Round tourney with 120 pairs. You play 4 of 199 possible opponents which is not even 2%, this is lotterie.Usually a tourney consists of at least 80% pairs that have not played together a lot. Bidding and discarding are usually not even discussed. So any board has lots of results that are caused by playing wrong contracts or losing because of bad defence. See the range e.g. of a normal MP tournament usually 75% to 25% this shows how much the players level differ. I admit that the new swiss/survivor movement is a step towards more serious results, but some "gifts" from the first rounds can carry me way up. Asuming a clear win/lose situation a fair swiss movement with 120 Pairs need 7 rounds to find the winner. Since in Bridge the best pair will only play avarage against the weakest pair if the contract is lay down, there should at least have 8 rounds. Most tourney do not have that many rounds. Movement theory is not so widley spread, but note that in a perfect 7 table Howell with 2 superiour pairs and 12 pairs of equal strength, those 12 pairs split up between 51% and 46% just depending on the position where they started.Usualy the TD should seat the best pairs to minimise those effects, but online that is not possible. BBO-Turnament movements are far from being perfect so you can easyly asume that you have at least +- 20% in your results just depend on whom u played. In fact tourneys are not more serious than playing the "Main Bridge Club" with one exception perhaps, at tourneys you can get more results per board (if there are more than 16 tables in play). I can understand that thee simplest way to cheat is having a kib telling you how to play. But as u already pointed out there are lot of other ways to accomplish that. I guess, if this were possible, it would be the best solution to allow privat with persons that are not kib at a table of that tourney. This solution could satify both sides. Have a nice dayhotShot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csdenmark Posted December 28, 2003 Report Share Posted December 28, 2003 I guess, if this were possible, it would be the best solution to allow privat with persons that are not kib at a table of that tourney. This solution could satify both sides. I think I agree with all your statements. This last solution I hope some day to see implemented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gweny Posted January 6, 2004 Report Share Posted January 6, 2004 :o Kibitizers in tables in good. else how we learn. kibitzers talking in tables in tournaemnts is not good. they say things like "claim" o describe hand - often is mistake but it do taint results then what do we do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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