New suit response to weak 2's

[pclayton]

Does anyone have a sensible method after a weak 2 and a new suit?

 

Personally, I find the auction like 2♠ - pass - 3♦ - pass - ?? frustrating because it seems all too often the 2 bidder just rebids his suit. Sometimes you'll get a raise of responder's, and sometimes you'll hear a 3N call if responder has just bits and pieces. The auction is generally very muddled.

 

Responder generally doesn't have a clue about opener's strength in most cases.

 

Does anyone have any good ideas here?

[pbleighton]

Not necessarily a good idea, but:

 

Rebid of suit: any minimum hand

3NT: maximum hand without a self sufficient suit and without a good 4 card side suit

3rd suit: maximum hand, decent 4 card suit

4M: self sufficient suit

 

Supply your own definitions of minmum, maximum, and self sufficient.

 

Peter

[kenrexford]

After a two-level new suit, I like this:

 

Example: 2♥-P-2♠-P-?

 

2NT = minimum, with support

3♠ = maximum, with support

3♥ = minimum, no support

new = maximum, no support, feature tendency

3NT = AKQxxx in my suit

 

If 2♠ promises spades, then splinters are possible, but discouraged.

 

If 2♠ is artificial (spades, or seeking a spade stopper for 3NT), then Responder can pass 2NT or convert 3♠ to 3NT. Any bid other than NT after 2NT is a game try, possible actually slammish, and any bid after 3♠ other than 3NT agrees spades and is slammish.

 

I use 3♣ as an artificial bid after a weak two, so that never occurs. 3♦ after 2M is weak because of the 3♣ call.

[mikeh]

I play weak 2♦/♥/♠, but the structure over 2♦ is fundamentally different than over 2Major, so I will ignore that idiosyncratic approach and deal with 2Major openings.

 

2♥  2♠: 2N is balanced max, with no fit and a little something in the other suits: may be as little as Jx... enough that partner, with Kxx in a side suit, won't be terrified of wrong-siding the 3N.

 

3♣ is support for ♠s (Qx or better) and a bad hand

3♦ is no support, good hand, ♦ card

3♥ no support, usually minimum

3♠ is good hand, good support (Qx) no splinter

3N solid suit (AKQxxx)

4♣/♦: 3+ support, good hand, shortness

 

 

Over 2Major and a 3-level response:

 

Generally retreat to the weak 2 suit denies support. Bid of an unbid suit below the weak 2 suit denies support and shows a good hand with a card in the bid suit. A bid of a new suit above the weak 2 suit (ie 3♠ after we open 2♥) shows support, a good hand, and a feature. A raise of the suit shows support, and a new suit at the 4-level, if below responder's suit is good hand, good support, feature (could be high card or shortness) and above responder's suit is a splinter.

 

Note that this requires that responder be careful in bidding 3 of a minor, forcing, since he will not be able to play 3N when he hits a fit.

 

In some (casual) partnerships, we use 3♣ to ask feature, with 2N asking stiff, and in those partnerships, obviously, we don't have these concerns after 2M - 3♣.

[mike777]

Assuming your weak 2 bids are the 2-3-4 variety maybe?

 

2h=2s=ask for shortness

2h=2nt=asks for feature

2s=2nt=ask for shortness

2s=3c=ask for feature

 

OTOH Roth stone weak two bids can be 2 suited decent hands very often ala nunes/fat....so I expect partner to very often show another suit.

[rimjhim]

Depending on agreement with partner I play either OGUST or 2N asking for feature over weak 2 openings. Hence when partner forces with a new suit, I would tend to support with 3 cards in partner's suit. With no support, I would bid an outside A or K if I had one -- rebidding my suit would deny an outside A or K and deny support for partner. The only time I would bid 3N is when my own suit is headed by AKQ.

[paulg]

Clearly my methods are highly non-standard as our suit response is non-forcing but shows the values for an intermediate jump overcall (11-16 HCP, 6-card suit). This allows opener to pass with a minimum hand and show features otherwise.

 

Strong hands have to go through the forcing relay.

 

Paul

[Finch]

As you say, there is rarely much of any use for opener to say after a forcing bid by responder, so I play transfers after a weak two opening.

 

2S -

2NT = clubs (responder bids 3C unless amazingly suitable for clubs)

3C = diamonds (as above)

3D = hearts (as above)

3H = invitational balanced raise in spades

3S = pre-emptive

4m = splinter

4H = to play

 

2S - 2NT - 3C - 3S = invite with a club suit

2S - 2NT - 3C - 3D = both minors, forcing for 1 round

2S - 3D - 3H - 4H = choice of major suit games

 

(and so on)

[whereagles]

"transfers"

 

'nuff said :D

[BillHiggin]

I prefer a form of fit bids for new (lower ranking) suit bids. I use 2N for most forcing hands (there are exceptions), and a new suit at the three level to imply at least tolerance for opener's suit with my suit as a "source of tricks". This has the effect of "turning opener's judgement back on" in that I expect opener to be able to make wise decisions if (when) the opponents enter this auction. It certainly works as a lead director (this can be very important when 4th hand tries 3N). Jumps are definitely fit jumps (I want to be in game in openers suit and want to show my side suit so partner may make a wise decision if the opponents compete).

 

The only attempts I will make to improve the partscore are with a major suit that rates to be better than opener's red suit (2 level new suits are still forcing though).

 

If 2nd hand has already initiated action, the fit bids are even more effective.

[Gerben42]

How about not bidding minors at all?

 

2♥ - ?

 

2♠ = asks for singleton

2NT = 5+♠

3♣ = Ogust

3♦, 3♠, 4♣ = CAB

 

2♠ - ?

2NT asks for singleton

3♣ Ogust

3♦ = 5+♥

3♥, 4♣, 4♦ = CAB

[Finch]

As a slight side-issue, I've been playing these methods for years and the responses I make to a weak two after RHO passes are one of

 

i) Pass (40%)

ii) Game (in a denomination of my choice) (25% or so)

iii) Pre-emptive raise (25% or so)

iv) Random invite (5%)

v) All others (5% or less)

 

By the way, if the next hand acts over the weak two, my response structure changes completely. I am no longer interested in delicate invitational sequences but in getting the declare/defend decision right. So

 

2S - (x) -

 

2NT = lebensohl (to sign off in my own suit)

new suits & non-game jumps = fit, may be lead-directional

all games = to play

Redouble = strong, penalty orientated

 

2S - (overcall) -

Double = penalties

Suits = natural, forcing, may be lead-directional

Non-game suit jumps = fit