2/1 with enemy overcall -- who must bid?

[elwood913]

Hi,

Fairly new here, intermediate-ish bridge player.

Playing standard american (but not 2/1 game force) a 2/1 response is forcing and promises a rebid. But how does an enemy overcall following the 2/1 response effect the forcing nature of the 2/1 bid? I think it is correct that now the opener may pass with a minimum and nothing constructive to say since the responder will have the opportunity to bid again, but what about the responder? If it is now passed around to the responder may he pass or must he fulfill his duty to rebid? That is, does opener's pass imply minimum values and allow responder to judge if anything useful will come from further bidding, or should the responder still be forced to bid, allowing the opener to pass some stronger hands that don't have a convenient rebid if he wishes to hear more about responder's distribution/strength? Opener's hand might be:

[hv=d=s&s=sajtxxhkqxdkxxcqx]133|100|1-p-2[D]-2[H]-??[/hv]

I might not have created the best example, but the idea is that opener would like to know if 3NT or 4♠ (or somthing else) is a better contract and his rebid is not likely to help responder decide, but he might hear something from responder that helps.

Pros for allowing the responder to pass in this situation (thus forcing the opener to rebid his stronger hands) include avoiding continued bidding when both partners have a minimum and no good fit exists, enabling responder to bid more accurately knowing opener's strength, and avoiding a situation where further interference from the opponents causes difficulty in later bidding that could have been simplified if opener is forced to rebid his stronger hands.

Any comments appreciated, Thanks!

[gwnn]

Normally a 2/1 is forcing to 2NT I think (depends on agreement of course).

 

So then every pass made below the level of 2NT is forcing, ie pd must bid or double if he has some defense and nothing special.

 

I think the correct rebid in your example would be X. Promising some trumps and probably 5332.

[pbleighton]

"I think it is correct that now the opener may pass with a minimum and nothing constructive to say since the responder will have the opportunity to bid again, but what about the responder? If it is now passed around to the responder may he pass or must he fulfill his duty to rebid? That is, does opener's pass imply minimum values and allow responder to judge if anything useful will come from further bidding, or should the responder still be forced to bid, allowing the opener to pass some stronger hands that don't have a convenient rebid if he wishes to hear more about responder's distribution/strength?"

 

The opener can pass in this situation, showing a minimum which is usually balanced. However, he should bid if he can, even if the bid isn't perfect.

 

After that, the responder can pass if he wishes, but it is usually wrong to do so, as letting the opps play undoubled when you have the balance of power rarely scores well.

 

Peter

[Apollo81]

2/1 is forcing to 2NT.

[helene_t]

I would prefer a pass from opener to be forcing, but I suspect "standard" is non-forcing. Mike Lawrence writes in his bidding quizes that a 2/1 freebid does not promise a second bid, so by analogy 2♠ would be non-forcing here (not sure if that analogy applies).

 

Even if a 2/1 is normaly forcing to 2NT (which is not evident, e.g. 1♠-2♣-2♥-2♠ could be non-forcing) I think this is problematic here since you don't want to bid 2NT without a guard in opp's suit. If a 2/1 is forcing to 3 of responder's suit, this could still apply after a sandwich overcall.

 

If pass is non-forcing, opener should double 2♥, and I think he should still do that even if a pass is forcing. (In French standard, a 2NT rebid shows this hand, but in Standard American there's no standard way of showing this hand, and many would open 1NT for that reason).

[gwnn]

1♠-2♣-2♥-2♠ is the GF raise (with little or no slam interest) and NOT a preference bid.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

a 2/1 response creates a forcing pass situation.

 

You can argue, that it just creates the forcing

pass up to a certain level, but not for me.

 

With the given hand, you know you have game

values, you have the option to hit 2H or to bid

3NT, it depends on the vulnerability, being red

vs. green, I would bid 3NT, else I would simply

make a penalty double.

 

It is easier, playing IMP, getting 500 instead of 600

is not the end, playing MP, ... it is probably a toss up.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

<snip>

Pros for allowing the responder to pass in this situation (thus forcing the opener to rebid his stronger hands) include avoiding continued bidding when both partners have a minimum and no good fit exists, enabling responder to bid more accurately knowing opener's strength, and avoiding a situation where further interference from the opponents causes difficulty in later bidding that could have been simplified if opener is forced to rebid his stronger hands.

<snip>

As always style plays a role, if you regular open

garbage, and your 2/1 responses are regular sub

minimum, than making the pass non forcing gets

some credit, ... still, you cater for a small set of

hands.

 

Because partner still can run, if he did stretch, and

a double, simply says, i dont have any interest in

anything else.

 

If pass is nonforcing, you will quite often have a hand

with no clear bid, tank, pass, ... and see the director at

your table.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[goobers]

With the given hand, you know you have game

values, you have the option to hit 2H or to bid

3NT, it depends on the vulnerability, being red

vs. green, I would bid 3NT, else I would simply

make a penalty double.

Just a little nitpick.

 

The auction is standard, not 2/1.

 

Agree though, certainly can't let them play 2H.

[mike777]

edit ...what are you playing?

[Gerben42]

Playing standard the partnership still can not pass out this bid. Your best choice here is to pass, and see what partner wants. Partner may not pass.