What do you open?

[microcap]

A simple poll: In a team match, NV vs V: You are in 4th hand, and 3 passes to you. You hold:

 

[hv=d=w&v=e&s=shaqj954dq9853ck4]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

What do you open and why?

[gwnn]

Not a nice hand. I'd have prefered some diamond texture.. As an addicted game-level preempter, I'll try 4h. Maybe I get lucky or I find some addicted competer at my left (unlikely) who'll try 4sp on AKJTx only to be X'ed by my pd sitting on Q9xxxx. It's just impossible to find out whether or not our hands fit well. I want to find out whether or not p has at least a doubleton heart, 2 of top 4 or some length in diamonds, etc etc.. No way can I ask these, in any system.

[pbleighton]

"It's just impossible to find out whether or not our hands fit well."

 

Agree.

 

2H, shows 11-14 with 6+ hearts in the 4th seat. I want to make it a little tough for them to find their spades, which means I don't like 1H.

 

4H has some appeal.

 

Peter

[han]

1H.

[cherdano]

Why is it impossible to find out whether the hands fit well? You could try bidding your red suits, and let partner judge...

 

1H is normal, 2H is an underbid but has some appeal; once you unexpectedly rebid diamonds you have shown a shapely hand that is rather short in hcp.

[pbleighton]

"2H is an underbid"

 

Why is it an underbid in the 4th seat?

 

Peter

[inquiry]

1♥, because it is an opening hand and hearts is my longest (and strongest) suit.

[gwnn]

Cause pd doesn't need a fit, just a few cards.. how is going to know to go for it with xxxx xx kj xxxxx? Of course this is a forced example, but there are milder ones on which passing 1h or the subsequent diamond rebid is completely reasonable... Of course maybe this NV game is not that big a loss, who's to say

[mikeh]

I don't feel strongly about this, altho I'd rather pass than open 4♥.

 

I think I'd probably open 2♥, intending to bid the appropriate number of ♦s if the opps come to life... the question will be difficult only if the auction is at 4♠ by the time it gets back to me, with partner not having raised ♥s.

 

Question: if I open 2♥, and LHO overcalls 2♠... what does double mean?

 

In all the years I have played, the auction has never come up... and the essence of the 2♥ bid is, presumably, to describe some ostensibly 6331 or 6322 hand with minimum opening values: it is a very tightly constrained bid most of the time.. so maybe the double should be penalty? I'd take it as negative, absent agreement... but ......

[pbleighton]

"Question: if I open 2♥, and LHO overcalls 2♠... what does double mean?

 

In all the years I have played, the auction has never come up... and the essence of the 2♥ bid is, presumably, to describe some ostensibly 6331 or 6322 hand with minimum opening values: it is a very tightly constrained bid most of the time.. so maybe the double should be penalty? I'd take it as negative, absent agreement... but ...... "

 

I think it should be penalty.

 

Peter

[Al_U_Card]

I wonder what pard has.....5-5 in the blacks? Less than 10 hcp? dbltn H?

 

1H-1S-2D-2H ppp

or

2H-p-p-???(3 in a black suit comes to mind as pard has to have at least 3S cards.)

or

3H-p-p-DBL (maybe?)

or

4H-p-p-p

 

1H looks to be the winner to me.

[whereagles]

I'll open 1♥, to try and find out whether there is spade wastage. 4♥ could EASILY get the golden bike, though.

[mike777]

1H playing roth stone or lite openings.

[jtfanclub]

I can't stand opening these hands 2♥. I refuse to do it.

 

It tells too much to the opponents, and it's a piece of cake for them to find their spade fit. Hands that would pass passively over 1♥ leap into action when they know the points are evenly divided. The last thing I want to do in a part score battle when I don't have spades is to show my hand to my opponents.

 

If I were 3-6-4-0, or maybe even 2-6-5-0, I would open 2♥, because they might get overexcited about a crappy spade fit when they have an excellent club fit. But if I open 2♥, I expect to hear:

 

2♥ (X or 2♠) 3♥ (3♠)

P......(P).........X.....(P)

 

And now I wish that I'd passed.

[awm]

How about opening 3NT to show a preemptive hand with 6+♥ and a 5+ card minor? Yes I actually do play this convention in several partnerships... :rolleyes:

 

Otherwise I like 1♥.

[P_Marlowe]

1H

 

I need two bids, to describe the

hand.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Winstonm]

I see no reason to distort the bidding when I have a perfectly normal bid available - 1H.

[microcap]

Now flip the coin, partner has opened 2♥ in 4th hand. Now RHO comes in with 3♠ !!

 

You hold [hv=d=e&v=e&s=sq5hk72dkj1072cq98]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

How do you continue, if at all?

 

And what the heck is going on here? :) :(

[gwnn]

This is a bit weird, of course. Perhaps he had a heart void and learned in the kindergarten that preempting in 1st seat with a void is bad.

 

Responder is not obliged to bid 4♥, but I think he should -- pd promised a nice heart one-suiter.

 

I must admit I didn't like 2♥, but it certainly worked better than 1♥! (and 4♥ would have worked even better, but I have to admit, it's not a Totally Correct Call).

[hotShot]

Opening 2♥ in 4th seat, can hardly be a preempt, because pass would have had a much better preemptive effect.

So partner made a nonsense bid and if he's not stupid, he wanted me to get a message.

So I would assume that partner wanted to show a "minimum opener" with 6♥'s that can be sold as maximum weak 2, but has more playing strength than a regular weak 2. Obviously he expected opps to enter the auction over a 1♥ bid. So I expect a more unbalanced hand as usual.

As expected by partner opps entered the auction with 3♠ and if that's what he expected, than he's short in ♠.

Why can RHO bid 3♠ now and could not preempt 2♠ earlier and why did he jump to 3♠ over partners "preempt"?

Obviously RHO had the wrong shape for 2♠ and is 2 suited.

This means that we probably have a double fit.

 

So i think that I would bid 4♥ (if i trust partner a lot i might bid 4♦).

[jtfanclub]

So i think that I would bid 4♥ (if i trust partner a lot i might bid 4♦).

Interesting...my logic is exactly the same as yours, which is why I pass.

 

I think we're looking at a two-suiter from hell, some kind of 7-1-0-5 distribution with the spades headed by the king-nine, maybe. If they bid 4♠, they're going to make it. I'm not going to give them a double-shot of "if we make 4♠, I need to bid it. If they make 4♥, I'm need to bid it". No siree, Bob. I pass smoothly, and pray that's where we play it. At this point, going for a mere -170 looks like a good thing. If I had....

 

xx

Axx

Axxxx

Qxx

 

I would seriously consider FIVE hearts (or five diamonds if I trust my partner) if they bid 4 spades, but I'm still going to see if I can just let the auction die now.

[microcap]

Very fascinating-- I did exactly the same as JT at the table---then Rex was annoyed with me for not doing as hotshot suggests. I will finish the story later for everyone.

[mikeh]

I may be allowing my knowledge of what opener held for the 2♥ bid to influence my call here: but I think that we should be bidding 4♦.

 

Anyone with a pulse will know that 4♦ is a ♥ raise with long ♦s: it is impossible for it to mean anything else, given that I am a passed hand.

 

While one should not bid 4♦ anticipating or even catering to 5 cards in opener's hand, it does make sense on two-levels.

 

One if to clue partner into the fact that our 4♥ raise (which 4♦ is) is based on a good hand... not just moderate values and ♥ length. We have amaximum pass. The second is to set the stage for a 4 or 5 level decision. 5 card length is surprising: 4 card length is not what we expect, but it is not 'weird' to find it... and if opener is, for example, 1=6=4=2, we probably don't want to be defending 4♠... but if he is 3=6=1=3, we do. 4♦ informs him. An informed partner is a happy partner.

[whereagles]

I'm not sure I'd bid over 3♠ 100% of the time, but if I were to, mikeh's 4♦ is clearly the technically correct bid. Let's thank RHO for allowing us such a descriptive bid when he could have shut us off with a 3♠ opener.

[sswarnendu]

Hi All......

Since opps are silent,i can expect 7-8 ordinary points from my p....i want them in the red suits....but i think trying to find how the hand fits is risky.......opposite a passed p,missing slam is unlikely,but not at all impossible.....(opposite ♦A & K,♣ A....slam is playable;opposite ♦AJT & ♣A...slam is on any one of the finesse winning;♥K,♦KJT ♣A....again playable;

2♥ is an underbid because it does not convey the message of slam interest immediately which i think is the only real reason for thinking about opening 1 level on this hand on 4th seat....2♥ does promise opening value on 4th seat....but this hand is far bigger than an opening hand....

But looking for a (hard to bid,unlikely)slam is not enough reason to risk missing out many a making game....I am a strong believer of "Rule of 15" on 4th seat...since i have a ♠void....i need 15 hcp to open 1 level....

I wont mind going -2 or +2 on this hand on a 4♥contract....but can not tolerate opponents playing & making(very likely as i have very few quick tricks & almost no useful defensive value)some number of ♠s...........i'd open 4♥.......if my p complains about the bid after the game,then next time i'd pass on this hand....still if she complains.....i'll find a new p then.... :) .......