Don't Splinter With a Void in 2/1?

[jdeegan]

;) I always feel weird when I show 'shortness' holding a void. It just seems like I have left something unsaid. This combined with the fact that splinters eat up a level of bidding, just doesn't seem right. My 'picture' is not on target because nine times out of ten (approx) it is a singleton.

 

So, what to do with a void? Bid the hand out, the old fashioned way? Any thoughts? :) :wacko:

[the hog]

Nah! Still splinter. In a cue bidding auction you can always cue again to show the void. You can also show it in response to a KC ask.

[kenrexford]

I agree with this problem. There are a few solutions.

 

First, split up splinter bid options. For example, if you play Bergen or something similar, you might like using 3♣ on stiff splinter hands. If partner bids 3♦ to ask about your hand, the other major can show an undisclosed stiff, relay for the exact location. Then, an immediate splinter is perhaps a void splinter.

 

And/or add a level of complexity. E.g., 1♥-P-3♠ is a splinter, unknown shortness; 3NT asks where. Then 3NT/4C/4D are void splinters. In concert with 3♣, you can gain a lot of definition as to length and strength.

 

You can even add in some flexibility when the splinter (or delayed through relays splinter) is not right below the agreed suit. For example, although a 4♥ splinter to a 1♠ opening should be tight, a 4♦ splinter allows a 4♥ LTTC from Opener and can be more flexible. A 4♣ splinter (or relayed) allows two cuebids below 4♠ and can therefore be even more flexible.

 

Some just splinter with shortness, stiff or void, and hope to catch up somehow. The trick is in finding how much in the way of delicate agreements you and partner can handle.

[mike777]

Why not play both?

 

1s=3h=stiff or void somewhere.....3s asks.

1h=2s=stiff somewhere...2nt asks

1h=3s=void somewhere...3nt asks.

 

Unlike Adam and many other excellent players I play splinters show limited LTC hands....

[keylime]

If I have a void I often have a four/five card suit and thusly I do not splinter; by implication my splinters most of the time show 1 piece.

 

I play 1M-4C/D and 1S-4X as fit jumps instead of voids.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

you can play void and single splinter.

 

e.g. one option suggested by Ron Klinger:

 

1H

 

- 3S (1)

- 3NT (2)

- 4C (3)

 

(1) void splinter, 3NT asks

4C,4D show the void in the suit named

4H shows the spade void

(2) single in clubs

(3) single

 

1S

 

- 3NT (1)

- 4C (2)

 

(1) void splinter, 4C asks

4D,4H show the void in the suit named

4S shows the heart void

(2) single

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[the hog]

Two way splinters, (s/t void), are a waste of space when one looks at their frequency. Bids are better used for something more constructie and descriptive.

[kenrexford]

Two way splinters, (s/t void), are a waste of space when one looks at their frequency. Bids are better used for something more constructie and descriptive.

You may be right. Just for fun, though, What do you mean by 1♥-P-3♠? Just curious if you already waste the space. :(

[SoTired]

Two-way splinters are very useful... But not on void/singleton, but on point count. Play 3-other-major as 10-12 HCP unspecified splinter and double-jump-shift as 13-15 HCP splinter (1H-3N is 13-15 spade splinter).

 

You can differentiate the void/singleton only in the 1S-3H sequence.

 

IMHO, bid 2/1 only when 5-card suit is 2-of-top-3 honors+. Otherwise, splinter.

[han]

Yes Ron, please inform us of your use of 1S-3NT that is so clearly superior to any form of 2-way splinters.

[cnszsun]

Two-way splinters are very useful... But not on void/singleton, but on point count. Play 3-other-major as 10-12 HCP unspecified splinter and double-jump-shift as 13-15 HCP splinter (1H-3N is 13-15 spade splinter).

I like this treatment much. I also find some expert players are using double jump bid as strong splinter, so maybe they've applied the similar scheme.

 

You can differentiate the void/singleton only in the 1S-3H sequence.

But, i don't know how this is done.

Maybe after 1S-3H*, you use 3S as asking, responder will bid 4c/4d/4h if void, 3nt instead if stiff, then opener can bid 4c asking short suit further.

[the hog]

Yes Ron, please inform us of your use of 1S-3NT that is so clearly superior to any form of 2-way splinters.

OK Hannie.

When I play Acol, which is increasingly frequent these days as my old age has caused me to start to forget relays, I play the following:

1M

2N either a limit bid, a 17+ bal raise or a 14- 17 spinter

3M 15-16 bal raise

3NT a 12-14 bal raise - NO decent 5 card side suit

4m Also 1H 3S and 1S 4H a 10-13 splinter or an 18+ splinter, (ever had one of those? I haven't!)

In addition we also play the usual delayed game raises.

 

This structure is 20 years old, has served me well in the past and continues to do so again.

 

Further it is not that it is SO clearly superior to 2 way splinters, it is just that if you have a special void splinter how often are you going to use it as compared to using that bid for something else? Its a matter of frequency, especially as there are many hands on which you can show the void anyway. OK?

[SoTired]

Two-way splinters are very useful... But not on void/singleton, but on point count. Play 3-other-major as 10-12 HCP unspecified splinter and double-jump-shift as 13-15 HCP splinter (1H-3N is 13-15 spade splinter).

I like this treatment much. I also find some expert players are using double jump bid as strong splinter, so maybe they've applied the similar scheme.

 

You can differentiate the void/singleton only in the 1S-3H sequence.

But, i don't know how this is done.

Maybe after 1S-3H*, you use 3S as asking, responder will bid 4c/4d/4h if void, 3nt instead if stiff, then opener can bid 4c asking short suit further.

1S 3H = 10-12 unspecified splinter

3S = ask

>>>3N = I have void

>>>>>>4C = where?

>>>>>>>>>4D/4H = here

>>>>>>>>>4S = clubs

>>>4C/4D/4H = singleton here

4S = no slam interest

[fred]

I play "2-way splinters" in my regular 2/1 partnerships, but I use the 2 types of splinters to distinguish between ranges (roughly 10-12 and roughly 13-15) instead of distinguishing between singletons and voids.

 

When a passed hand makes a splinter bid it is different (since obvoiusly you can't have 13-15 anymore). In this case we do use "2-way splinters" to distinguish between hands that contain singletons and hands that contain voids.

 

When I have a splinter-type hand that contains a void, I try to find some other way to bid the hand (by making a forcing raise like Jacoby 2NT for example), but sometimes I judge that a direct splinter is the best choice on such hands.

 

As far as I can tell this general approach is popular among the leading American pairs and few of these pairs have a way for responder to describe a splinter-type hand that contains a void.

 

System designers are frequently faced with having more hands types they want to describe than sequences that are available. If you want to have a sequence to describe a splinter-void type hand then you have to give up on something else. Conventional wisdom (no pun intended) seems to be that the splinter-void type hand is not that important (because such hands are rare and because there are usually other acceptable ways to bid these hands).

 

So my suggestion would be that you not lose any sleep over this.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[brianshark]

In my regular 2/1 partnership, I play concealed splinters (which double as showing singletons/voids if asked). The method is similar to those posted earlier in he thread.

 

I find that by far the biggest benefit comes from the concealement of the shortness for non-slam hands rather than differentiating between sing/voids when slamming. Since the shortness is a known control, and the hand strength is adjusted based on which it is (ie. if it's only a singleton, you'll have an ace elsewhere to compensate) it makes little difference for small slams. Maybe it does for grand slams but you can always ask by bidding the splinter suit (or show by rebidding the splinter suit) in that case anyway.

[pclayton]

Two way splinters, (s/t void), are a waste of space when one looks at their frequency. Bids are better used for something more constructie and descriptive.

Agree 100%. We had void splinters on the cc for 3 years and they didn't come up once.

[ArcLight]

Fred wrote:

>I play "2-way splinters" in my regular 2/1 partnerships, but I use the 2 types of splinters to distinguish between ranges (roughly 10-12 and roughly 13-15) instead of distinguishing between singletons and voids.

 

 

Fred,

What bidding sequences do you use to distingish these 2 ranges?

 

1♠ - ? to show the little splinter? ? = the big splinter

1♥- ? to show the little splinter? ? = the big splinter

 

 

The Klinger method that P_Marlowe posted?

 

Responding 3NT to 1M?

 

>1S 3H = 10-12 unspecified splinter

 

This gives up the invitational jump shift, maybe thats not such a big loss?

(I don't know, just pointing out that this method has a cost)

 

 

 

Also, may I assume that 10-12 = HCP, and not support points?

With 10-12 support points (7-9 HCP + 3 for stiff) you can bid a Limit Raise.

 

I don't see why it would be desirable to overlap teh support point value (10-12) with the support point value of the little splinter)

 

10-12 HCP evaluates to 13-15 support points, more than a Limit Raise

13-15 HCP evaluates to 16-18 support points

[mike777]

Two way splinters, (s/t void), are a waste of space when one looks at their frequency. Bids are better used for something more constructie and descriptive.

Agree 100%. We had void splinters on the cc for 3 years and they didn't come up once.

Again Phil I am quite shocked by this frequency statement, I have them come up at least once a month or more.

[fred]

Fred wrote:

>I play "2-way splinters" in my regular 2/1 partnerships, but I use the 2 types of splinters to distinguish between ranges (roughly 10-12 and roughly 13-15) instead of distinguishing between singletons and voids.

 

 

Fred,

What bidding sequences do you use to distingish these 2 ranges?

 

1♠ - ?    to show the little splinter?  ? = the big splinter

1♥- ?    to show the little splinter?  ? = the big splinter

 

 

The Klinger method that  P_Marlowe posted?

 

Responding 3NT to 1M?

 

>1S 3H = 10-12 unspecified splinter

 

This gives up the invitational jump shift, maybe thats not such a big loss?

(I don't know, just pointing out that this method has a cost)

 

 

 

Also, may I assume that 10-12 = HCP, and not support points?

With 10-12 support points (7-9 HCP + 3 for stiff) you can bid a Limit Raise.

 

I don't see why it would be desirable to overlap teh support point value (10-12) with the support point value of the little splinter)

 

10-12 HCP evaluates to 13-15 support points, more than a Limit Raise

13-15 HCP evaluates to  16-18 support points

1H-3S=any 10-12 splinter (3NT asks)

1H-3NT=13-15 spade splinter

1H-4C=13-15 club splinter

1H-4D=13-15 diamond splinter

 

1S-3NT=any 10-12 splinter (4C asks)

1S-4x=13-15 splinter short in x

 

You are correct that 10-12 and 13-15 refer to HCP (and not support points).

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[jtfanclub]

You can always try:

 

1♠-(3♣ to 3♥) Splinter with 9-11 hcp*

1♠-3♠ Splinter in unknown suit with 6-8 hcp (3NT asks which). Not-forcing

1♠-3NT Void splinter with 12+ hcp (4♣ asks which)

1♠-(4♣ to 4♥) Singleton splinter with 12-14 hcp.

 

That's what a friend of mine uses.

 

What can I say...I like it better than Bergen raises, and it takes up the same bids.

 

*There are times when the splinter decreases the value of opener to the point where 3♠ is a good place to stop.

[the hog]

Two way splinters, (s/t void), are a waste of space when one looks at their frequency. Bids are better used for something more constructie and descriptive.

Agree 100%. We had void splinters on the cc for 3 years and they didn't come up once.

Again Phil I am quite shocked by this frequency statement, I have them come up at least once a month or more.

I guess you play about 10,000 hands a month? I played this method for a whole year with one pd and had it come up once - and I played quite a lot!

[mike777]

great ..great post about void splinters...need to count now

[1eyedjack]

I used to play

1S-3N = no minor shortage

1S-4C = Diamond shortage

1S-4D = Club singleton

1S-4H = Club void.

 

After 1S-3N or 1S-4C opener could relay to identify the extent of the shortage without committing beyond game (1S-3N-4C-4D = no shortage, 4H = Heart singleton, etc).

 

After 1H it is the same but a step lower.

 

It had a certain elegance to it - the lower level bids containing a wider variety of hands commensurate with the amount of bidding space available for clarification.

 

But that was in the days before I knew better: that with no shortage you do better to show your slam try at a lower level, and the greater importance of splitting the ranges compared with the extent of shortage. Flavour of the moment is a simple jump shift to show another range of splinter.

[blackshoe]

I've been reading about Hardy Raises. Haven't had a chance to play them yet, but a couple players around here have, and they like 'em. B)

 

Briefly:

 

1♥/♠ - 3♦/♥ -- "Under jump shift" - 9+-12-, 4 trumps, singleton or void somewhere. methods exist to distinguish singleton/void and find out where.

 

1♥/♠ - 3♠/NT -- "Over jump shift" - 12+-15-, 4 trumps, singleton or void somewhere. Can find out where, but not enough room to distinguish singleton from void.

 

With 15+ or more, go through Jacoby 2NT.