flytoox Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 White all, you hold:S:A9XH:JTD:Q8XC:KQT86 RHO opens 1D(Precision but promises 3+). Do you overcall 2C or pass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starfruit Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Something related : http://forums.bridgebase.com/index.php?sho...ic=17680&st=15# Though the difference is that my situation is vul against not B) But I suspect most would advocate only an overcall on a good 6 card suit unless you have alot of HCPs. (From the responses of my post) KQT86 just doesn't seem to cut it with only 12HCP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Yes, absolutely overcall. You cut out opposition bids at the 1 level. I would not overcall 1M, by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 My style is to pass, but I don't know whether that style is better than a style that allows 2♣ here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 2c easyPer Sabine bid 2c over any 1d opening with any excuse...B) Sure you can go for a number..next hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 2♣ seems clear, partner will not give it the full overcall strength because I take an entire level away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vang Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 i prefer pass, i don't see this hand as an offensive one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Pass. Not with Qxx in diamonds.At matchpoints you might tempt me into 2C but I'd feel guilty about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Touch and go. Qxx diamonds combined with only 5 clubs might scare me away. However, I wouldn't blame anyone who decides to bid 2♣ non vulnerable. If you are red, I think it's a clear pass. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Not for me I'm afraid. I must admit my first response was no way ever, but lots of people say it's close, so maybe I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Minor over minor overcalls are extremely difficult to handle for the opening side, even more if 1♦ if of the nebulous variety. 2♣ stands a mile. Passing is handing oneself into the wims of fate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Just pass. If we have something big here, pard will balance. The club suit I like; everything else about the hand I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianshark Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 I think I'll bid 2♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotShot Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Of cause this is a style question, but i see people overcall 5 card suits with 10+ HCP on the 2 level all the time. Bidding weak 2 with 5 cards got popular too and that would mean less HCP that this hand has. Your holding is good enough for partner playing your suit.So there are a lot of argument to simply bid 2♣ with this hand. Taking bidding space form precision players, is an additional argument to enter the auction. So if you partnership would bid 2♣ over any 1 level SAYC or 2/1 opening, you should overcall now.If your style is different and you won't overcall with this hand, than don't.The most important thing here is to stay consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 So there are a lot of argument to simply bid 2♣ with this hand. Taking bidding space form precision players, is an additional argument to enter the auction. Doesn't matter that they're Precision players. In fact, in this case, that they're Precision players makes it much less likely that your bid will hurt them (they're opening shows 3+ diamonds and 11-15 hcp, while the SAYC opener show 3+ diamonds and 11-21 hcp). It a lot of space that you can use up, but my usual partners really do expect a full opener. Across an unpassed hand, my usual question is 'if my partner leaped to 3NT, would I regret opening my mouth'. If my P did bid 3NT, it's likely that my Q♦ is golden (partner probably has Ax or Kx). I've got lots of help in whatever other suits he has. I wouldn't be ashamed to put this hand down. I also don't see any rebid issues. I'll say 2♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTired Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 2C for me... I think I have a typical 2-level style: always good suit, non-vul = close to opener; vul= full opener. Since this hand has a good suit and close to an opener, I bid 2C. Take away 1 hcp or the 10♣ and I pass.As others have mentioned 2C steals the entire 1-level. If responder has only one 4-card major, the hand becomes awkward to bid. There is risk in bidding. LHO has an easy penalty pass with 4 good clubs and 10 HCP. But there is a risk in passing, too. They may easily find their correct level and fit and will more accurately decide what to do if the defense enters the auction with 3C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Doesn't matter that they're Precision players. In fact, in this case, that they're Precision players makes it much less likely that your bid will hurt them (they're opening shows 3+ diamonds and 11-15 hcp, while the SAYC opener show 3+ diamonds and 11-21 hcp). That depends on the sort of precision they play. Some variants use 1♦ with as little as 0 diamonds. That obviously isn't the case here (and LHO knows that, of course), but opener may still be 4423. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Doesn't matter that they're Precision players. In fact, in this case, that they're Precision players makes it much less likely that your bid will hurt them (they're opening shows 3+ diamonds and 11-15 hcp, while the SAYC opener show 3+ diamonds and 11-21 hcp). That depends on the sort of precision they play. Some variants use 1♦ with as little as 0 diamonds. That obviously isn't the case here (and LHO knows that, of course), but opener may still be 4423. How about reading posts before replying? :D4423 does not contain 3+ diamonds as specified in the original posting... This 1♦ actually seems pretty well defined, it might even promise an unbalanced hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 > How about reading posts before replying? :)> 4423 does not contain 3+ diamonds as specified in the original posting... Huh.. thought you mentioned precision in general, not the sort of precision this pair is playing :P > This 1♦ actually seems pretty well defined, it might even promise an > unbalanced hand? Could be. If always unbalanced, the 3 diams will appear in shapes like 4135 (bal hands and 4225s open 1NT), giving RHO a 5 club suit or 5+ diamonds. Responder knows that 99% opener has thus 5+ diamonds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 I would overcall 2C. For most of my bridge career I passed with hands like this one (as would many strong players), but then I noticed that the players who win the most all tend to bid with these hands. As far as I can tell they are right :P Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 Hmmm...actually, I suppose this could go into the Precision forum.... Let's suppose, for the sake of the argument, that the opener's 1♦ shows... 3 diamonds only if exactly (41)-3-54 diamonds only if exactly (41)-4-4 or 2-2-4-5 with small doubletonsand otherwise 5+ diamonds, not 5332. Is it a valid system to have 2♦ be semi-forcing over the 2♣, and an X mean 'if you have 4+ clubs, I'm all in favor of playing at 2♣ doubled'? And if so, would that change you decision on bidding 2♣? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotShot Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 You hold 12 HCP and opener showed 11-15. So you know where 23-27 HCP are placed. Your partner has (13-17) / 2 = 6.5 - 8.5 HCP on average.Assume you pass, what strength does your partner need to enter the auction?A 2 level-contract will usually make or won't loose more than 1-2 tricks, if you have 18+ HCP and a fit. So if you hold 12 HCP like this hand, most of the times you and your partner have a combined strength of 18-23 (which you have on average) you risk a bad score because you let opps play their fit on the lowest level. Additionally you do not even get help to find the best lead for your side. @jtfanclubKnowing that we have the majority of points a lot of times, why should I change my bidding style? So I'll take some dbled down and gain some dbled made or with overtricks. On the long run, bidding is the winning strategie (with suitable points and distributions). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 The other day,after a 1S bid on my right and me with a similar holding in hearts I passed. The bad news was that pard had four hearts. The good news was that at least at some tables where hearts were bid, opponents continued to compete to four spades, were doubled, and made it. We defended a simple part score. Who knows what's right, but I take the thoughts of everyone seriously and the thoughts of Fred very seriously. I would pass, but maybe it's wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 2♣ seems clear to me... yes, I know that 'clear' is probably an overbid, but I have for years believed that it is imperative to take chances over a 1♦ opening, when holding clubs. Take away that one level major suit response! I would not make the same bid if they had opened 1major and I had the Qxx in their major. I would not make the same bid if red v white: I'd have to be at the table to know if I'd do it red v red: I certainly know some fine players who would but I suspect I'd be too chicken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted January 31, 2007 Report Share Posted January 31, 2007 White all, you hold:S:A9XH:JTD:Q8XC:KQT86 RHO opens 1D(Precision but promises 3+). Do you overcall 2C or pass? Yes. It's a decent suit and the value of 2♣ is huge over their 1♦. If they opened 1♥ I'd double and if they opened 1♠ I'd pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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