The Nightmare Hand

[Winstonm]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=s86542h96432dkcaq]133|100|Scoring: IMP

1D-1S

2C-???

 

It's the last board of a tightly fought match. You are quietly kibitzing this hand - (you have a hefty side bet on this team) when the player hands you the cards and claims a pressing need for the restroom...an hour later everyone is still waiting and the director forces you into the fray as a substitue - what call do you make?[/hv]

[pbleighton]

2D, better a 5-1 than a 4-2, if pd is 4441 or 55 too bad.

 

Peter

[flytoox]

If pd has minor two suiters and maximum for his 2C rebid, we may still have game or even slams. So we should try to keep the auction going.

 

My choice is 2N. If it is passed I hope it is as good as 2D. If pd bid out his shape via 3M or 3m, I'll be well informed to make the right call.

 

 

 

A side point, Fred Gitelman-MOss in there convention card has a gadget over pd's 1D opening, i.e., 2H shows 5H4S weak, and 2S to show 5H4S invitational. I think this is an excellent treatment.

[the hog]

2D of course. What else? Fly were you smoking noxious substances when you posted this? Opener has shown at least 9 minor suits cards; you have no stoppers in either Major and you want to bid 2NT???? (Not to mention wrongsiding any possible NT contract.)

[vang]

errr. i'll choose between 2D and going to restrooms to find the player who left ;-)

[Adebisi]

2♦ to play 4-1 if opener has 1444 hand and 4H is cold?Or opener has (31)54 then 3 or 4 MAJ. U should have bid to show inv 55 MAJ-s here, over 4th suit: 2H then 3H or jump to 3H depending on your style here. And 2C in nat systems 11-17 , its so wide range if opener is max u could have also 3NT.But 2D with this hand really funny.

[P_Marlowe]

2D.

 

2S and 2H is out

Pass maybe right, but usually partner has longer diamonds

than clubs, additionally you have the chance, that partner

makes a game try with 2S, if you bid on.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Halo]

2NT

 

Another crazy optimist!

 

I've done the right thing with this sort of hand before, only to find partner with a mundane:

 

Ax,xx,AQJxx,Kxxx

 

wrapping up 3NT.

 

Three top honours in partners suits is not bad.

[whereagles]

2D of course. What else? Fly were you smoking noxious substances when you posted this? Opener has shown at least 9 minor suits cards; you have no stoppers in either Major and you want to bid 2NT???? (Not to mention wrongsiding any possible NT contract.)

Agree with this, except for the noxious substances :)

[flytoox]

2D of course. What else? Fly were you smoking noxious substances when you posted this? Opener has shown at least 9 minor suits cards; you have no stoppers in either Major and you want to bid 2NT???? (Not to mention wrongsiding any possible NT contract.)

A few comments.

 

First, pd has only shown 8 minor cards. WIth 1444 he bid the same way.

 

Second, 2N will not wrong side the contract as you suggest. If pd is 5431, he will bid out the shape and you can raise as I said. If pd is 1444, and accepts my 2N invitation then he will bid 3H ont the way and I can reach the major suit game. If he is 5422 then he will not bid this way with same about 16HCP hand. If 2N is the final contract, I admit it is not pretty, but 4-1 or 5-1 fit 2D contract isnot either. This is the risk I am willing to take.

 

LAST BUT NOT LEAST, PLEASE USE CIVILIIZED LANGUAGE!

[SoTired]

2N???? on 9hcp with ALL my strength in my 2-1 suits? My 2N are invitational to 3N and expect partner to bid 3N with Qx Ax Axxxx KJxx. How are you going to get 9 tricks.

 

2D is best choice.

 

Some play that 2H in this situation is non-forcing. If I have that agreement, then I would try that.

[awm]

Hate to mention this again, but hands like these are a huge win for a style where opener rebids 1NT on most minimum 1444 and 1354 type patterns. Over 1NT we have an easy 2♥ rebid. In the actual auction, the rebid is much less painful if we know that partner can't have these hands (opposite 1444, we are preferring a 4-1 to a 4-2, with a side 5-4 fit undiscovered).

 

Anyways I'll go with 2♦, confident that partner will bid on with a strong three-suited pattern and would've bid 1NT with a weak one.

[Apollo81]

2♦....other calls seem ridiculous.

[Halo]

2♦....other calls seem ridiculous.

Wrong possibly, but how could my example partner hand:

 

Ax,xx,AQJxx,Kxxx

 

be 'ridiculous'. Would you be ridiculed for holding this hand? Would you bid on over 2D?

 

Out there at IMPs, it's a not a bidding comp, you have to win on the night.

[jtfanclub]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=s86542h96432dkcaq]133|100|Scoring: IMP

1D-1S

2C-???

 

It's the last board of a tightly fought match. You are quietly kibitzing this hand - (you have a hefty side bet on this team) when the player hands you the cards and claims a pressing need for the restroom...an hour later everyone is still waiting and the director forces you into the fray as a substitue - what call do you make?[/hv]

I don't understand...or maybe I'm just ridiculous.

 

It seems like, on the first bid, when responder called 1♠ he's decided that his hand is worth a second bid. So I'm going to call 2♥. If partner rebids 2♠ I pass happily.

 

I'm not saying that I like the auction...I'm wishing that he'd bid 1♥ the first time, in which case I'd say 2♦ the second time. But now that I've been forced to call 1♠, I think I have to remain constant.

 

Obviously, there must be a flaw in my logic, but what is it?

[Apollo81]

2♦....other calls seem ridiculous.

Wrong possibly, but how could my example partner hand:

 

Ax,xx,AQJxx,Kxxx

 

be 'ridiculous'. Would you be ridiculed for holding this hand? Would you bid on over 2D?

 

Out there at IMPs, it's a not a bidding comp, you have to win on the night.

 

hm, heart lead...spade shift

 

8 tricks even with diam 4-3

[pbleighton]

"Wrong possibly, but how could my example partner hand:

 

Ax,xx,AQJxx,Kxxx

 

be 'ridiculous'. Would you be ridiculed for holding this hand?"

 

No, that's not the point.

 

As responder, however, you might be ridiculed for assuming partner had

this hand.

 

You have a misfitting 9 count opposite a hand which may be nothing in particular, up to an 18 count. Trust partner to push on with good 16-18 points, and don't worry about the <26 point misfitting 3NT contracts which make.

 

The 1x-1y-2z rebid is very wide ranging, and is a big flaw in standard bidding. Inviting with misfitting 9 counts doesn't make the flaw any smaller.

 

Peter

[whereagles]

> my example partner hand:

>

> Ax,xx,AQJxx,Kxxx

>

> Would you bid on over 2D?

 

No, but I might have rebid 1NT :P (not that that's an issue - just move a spade into clubs).

 

 

> Out there at IMPs, it's a not a bidding comp, you have to win on the night.

 

Yes. But not at all costs. The percentage action on a misfit is not to get happy.

[Halo]

OK

 

Weight of opinion against me - can't ignore it!

 

Apollo can't count to nine but never mind (unless he really thinks people usually cash out AKQJ10 against a seven card fit).

 

For the rest, you are maybe right, but one off in 2D and two off in 3NT. Bear in mind that you play it, you don't foist it on partner.

[pbleighton]

"For the rest, you are maybe right, but one off in 2D and two off in 3NT. Bear in mind that you play it, you don't foist it on partner."

 

Yeah, but my partner shares the score with me.

 

BTW, I don't like 2NT, but I've made far worse bids :P

 

Peter

[Winstonm]

Seeing how I started this I should chime in I guess. As Peter has pointed out, the extreme flexibility of this auction leaves partner room for anything from

a minmum 2-suiter to just short of a jump shift.

 

Some example hands might be:

xx, x, AJxxx, AKxxx

AKx, x, AQxxx, KJxx

or

x, AQ, AQJxxx, K10xx

 

Point being that in 2/1 parner could hold quite good hands and still have no better bid available than 2C, which means that with hands that can still produce game it is important for responder to keep the ball in the air, so to speak.

 

But then you have to realize that 2/1 was designed for imp play and is therefore geared to improved game and slam bidding and less so on accuracy in partscores.

 

Ergo, in my thinking the only way to keep this thing intelligently alive iis with a false preference to 2D - and as sure as this happens it will go all pass and partner will hold - x, Kxx, AQJx, Kxxxx. Ce la vie. :P

[han]

I agree with Adam, this hand makes a good case for rebidding 1NT on 1-4-4-4 and 1-4-5-3 hands (I expect that Adam didn't mean 1-3-5-4 hands, but maybe he did?). I'm also glad that my partner doesn't open 1D with 4-5 in the minors.

 

I agree with Winston's 2♦, at least we know we are in a 5-1 or better, and all of our honors are working.

 

Whatever Flytoox was intoxicated by, it must have been strong stuff. I'm not talking about his choice of 2NT (don't get me wrong, it seems a really bad call), but I think he misquoted the convention Fred and Brad play (I thought they used 2M to show 5-4 hands, not 4-5) and he accused Ron to use uncivilized language. I couldn't find it, this seems Ron's most civilized post in years

[awm]

Yes, I do (sometimes) mean 1-3-5-4 hands. My choice of rebid on this hand depends on location of values and with good hearts I would indeed bid 1NT. ;)

 

And Apollo can count to 9. Say we get a spade lead (or heart lead followed by spade switch). The remaining cards are:

 

xxxx xxxxx K AQ

x xx AQJxx Kxxx

 

It certainly looks like there are three club tricks and five diamond tricks (if diamonds 4-3) to go with the spade ace we just scored, but in fact the entries are hopelessly tangled. If we cash dummy's minor suit honors there is no way back to hand, and if we overtake either honor it eliminates a trick. Of cours eI suppose opener could have the diamond ten too, but this hand is getting perilously close to a 1NT opener (for some of us anyway).

 

In any case the point is that while there do exist hands with 14-15 points that would pass 2♦ and thereby miss a game, there are also plenty of hands where bidding 2NT gets us to a ludicrious contract that goes down multiple tricks. Since the hands with 16-18 hcp for opener will take another call over 2♦ anyway, we're probably better off not to push on this hand.

[the hog]

[hv=d=n&v=n&s=s86542h96432dkcaq]133|100|Scoring: IMP

1D-1S

2C-???

 

It's the last board of a tightly fought match.  You are quietly kibitzing this hand - (you have a hefty side bet on this team) when the player hands you the cards and claims a pressing need for the restroom...an hour later everyone is still waiting and the director forces you into the fray as a substitue - what call do you make?[/hv]

I don't understand...or maybe I'm just ridiculous.

 

It seems like, on the first bid, when responder called 1♠ he's decided that his hand is worth a second bid. So I'm going to call 2♥. If partner rebids 2♠ I pass happily.

 

I'm not saying that I like the auction...I'm wishing that he'd bid 1♥ the first time, in which case I'd say 2♦ the second time. But now that I've been forced to call 1♠, I think I have to remain constant.

 

Obviously, there must be a flaw in my logic, but what is it?

2H is 4th suit forcing. Many even play this as a gf. It is NOT a natural bid. So you can't bid 2H.

 

Furthermore Fly, that was a very polite comment about the quality of your 2NT bid. I gave you the benefit of the doubt by suggesting you were not yourself when you made it. But....

 

Whatever Flytoox was intoxicated by, it must have been strong stuff. I'm not talking about his choice of 2NT (don't get me wrong, it seems a really bad call), but I think he misquoted the convention Fred and Brad play (I thought they used 2M to show 5-4 hands, not 4-5) and he accused Ron to use uncivilized language. I couldn't find it, this seems Ron's most civilized post in years

 

Like an old cheese Hannie, I have mellowed with age. I used not to suffer fools gladly. Now I realise that there are so many fools around that you have to suffer them or you will be lonely.

[Winstonm]

I agree with Winston's 2♦,

 

This is the first time in my last 1,692 posts that Han has agreed with me - I need to write down this date. ;)