do you pass here ? if not what you bid?

[jocdelevat]

[hv=d=e&v=a&s=sa52hj92d874ct762]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     Pass  Pass

 1♣    Dbl   Pass  ?

 

 

Hi all

 

Do you pass here? if not what you bid?

 

 

Thank you for advice

Joc

[the hog]

Definitely not pass. I bid 1D. This is less likely to excite partner than 1M.

[pbleighton]

1S seems clear. Pd is likely short (2 at most) in clubs, and you have a weak hand.

 

Peter

[P_Marlowe]

No, 1S.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[the hog]

Guys, 1H I can understand, I guess, though 1M tends to make pd's excited with a really good hand, but 1S!!!!

Don't you guys X on Kxx AKxx Kxxx xx

[jikl]

1♦ for me, less likely to see partner start trying to force to game while you try to convince them that you don't have a 4 card suit.

 

Sean

[BebopKid]

1♦ for me, too, but 1♥ and 1♠ should not excite partner as all you've done is bid your best suit and shown no interest in your hand.

 

Definitely don't pass, partner could have a big hand that makes game with your measely 5 HCP.

[mike777]

uggg I guess 1nt....but willing to listen and learn.

[the hog]

uggg I guess 1nt....but willing to listen and learn.

Well Mike, you are about a K short of a 1NT bid. 1NT is a constructive bid here and the hand you have sure isn't constructive.

[xx1943]

pass never never

1NT no, you are too weak

1♠ no partner may have 3♠s and 4♥s

 

The question is 1♦ or 1♥. The answer depends on your partners style to double.

1) Does the double show majors and may have xx in diamonds?

2) Does the X promise all unbid suits ?

 

If 1) is yes, then 1♦ would show a 4+ diamond suit and I would bid 1♥

If 2) is yes then bid 1♦

[SoTired]

my partner's seem to equally double on 4342 as 3442, so I don't know how 1H or 1S makes much difference. I vote for 1H only because I hope some opp will save me with a 1S bid.

 

Pass - Never

1N - too weak, but less bad

1D or 1H is best... I usually bid my cheapest 3-card major because sometimes my partner's double on 4423 hands and I really hate playing 3-2 fits.

[gwnn]

We want to cool partner down (we have no shape and no high cards).

 

1♦ conveys the message "I am broke, and I have no majors" (ok I guess it also says something about diamonds, but it's nothing too serious). What's a better message to persuade partner to cool down? :)

[hotShot]

pass is no option, so I bid 1♦.

If i had a constructive hand I would make a jump, or bid NT. So partner will get the message that I'm weak.

Partner will bid a 5 card major if he is (54)(40|31|22), or he may guess

that i have a 3 card major and go for a moysian fit.

[whereagles]

1♦ seems canonical. If pard happens to rebid 1M afterwards, you have an easy raise at the 2 level.

[brianshark]

I think I'll bid 1♥ as my ♠Ace is worth a trick whether it's the trump suit or not, but J9 of ♥s may be valuable texture. I don't like 1♦. Just cos.

[Apollo81]

You can't pass a takeout double unless you expect to set the opponents' contract. Since you don't expect to set 1♣, you can't pass.

 

If you had given this problem to a panel of WC players I am sure they would overwhelmingly prefer 1♦ because it is the bid that is least likely to excite partner. If you bid a major, pard with his obvious extras and a likely "fit" could raise to 3 or 4 of that major. That's the last thing you want.

 

1♦ isn't going to excite partner. If he has the strong hand he will most likely bid 1M or 1NT. It's unlikely he would raise diamonds to a high level.

[pclayton]

1♦ looks like the intelligent call to me.

[Winstonm]

Normally I would like to discourage partner and bid 1D, but this hand isn't that bad with an A and a J, both in partner's implied suits. I bid 1H - if partner raises it shouldn't be a disaster.

[bid_em_up]

As others have said, do not pass the X, thereby converting it to penalties.

 

1♦ is the best call, imo, for several reasons. It will right-side any major suit or NT contract. It will not overly excite partner. It will not cause partner to misjudge a major suit fit. It will allow you to PASS 1H or 1S if you choose to do so (I would, the minimum count and flat distribution is enough to deter me from the raise), whereas bidding 1H or 1S is almost certainly going to get you raised to 2M, which may not be makeable. (And if it is, 1M+1 still scores the same as 2M, last time I checked.)

 

If forced to make a second choice of call, it would be 1N, not 1H or 1S. The hand is flat with no ruffing values, it contains scattered values, and it has some semblence of a club stop (10xxx). 1N is certainly more descriptive of the hand than either 1H or 1S is, imo.

[Apollo81]

See http://www.districtsix.org/WBL/Sol/2006/Sol0611.aspx problem 5 for a discussion of this issue.

[jocdelevat]

Thank you all.This was the board.

[hv=d=s&v=a&n=s743hkqt3d9caqj84&w=sa52hj92d874ct762&e=skqj6ha87dakt65c3&s=st98h654dqj32ck95]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     -     Pass

 Pass  1♣    Dbl   Pass

 1NT   Pass  3NT   Pass

 Pass  Pass  

 

My partner really got excited with my 1nt bid. The idea of 1d is great to discourage partner. Anyhow I'm not sure if I were in his shoes I will jump to game with that hand and a passed partner.

[han]

I would have bid 1D, though 1H also crossed my mind. Pass is out of the question, and I'm not strong enough for 1NT (I believe that there is no real consensus about how much strength 1NT show show over 1M-X, but over 1C it should show a better hand, at least a good 7-count imo).

 

Partner has a nice hand, I can't fault 3NT.

[mikeh]

1N is a terrible bid. It PROMISES values... there is NEVER a reason to lie about values over 1♣... you will always have a 3 card suit to bid, with a very weak hand, unless you have 7+ clubs, in which case pass rates to be the better call :)

 

Think of it this way: a bid of a suit at the 1 level carries no assurance of even 1 hcp, while only ostensibly promising 4 cards: any partner will know that a double of 1♣ will often catch partner with 3=3=3=4 or the like.

 

However, a bid of 1N carries a positive assurance of significant high card values, not to mention a stopper...one may well lie about a stopper after, say, 1♦ double: with Kx Jxx 10xxx KQxx, I would probably bid 1N rather than 2♣.

 

So when making a bid in a constructive auction, when any bid is likely to at least mildly mislead, choose the call that is the least lie, and if two calls appear to be equally misleading, choose the cheaper one: that gives you more room to recover.

 

Here, 1N is an enormous lie compared to any suit bid. All suit bids are 'lies' in a mild sense, so I choose 1♦ as it is the cheapest. It is also the bid least likely to get partner excited, but, to offset that, likely to be the poorest fit: partner will frequently be 4=4=3=2.

[jtfanclub]

Thank you all.This was the board.

[hv=d=s&v=a&n=s743hkqt3d9caqj84&w=sa52hj92d874ct762&e=skqj6ha87dakt65c3&s=st98h654dqj32ck95]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     -     Pass

 Pass  1♣    Dbl   Pass

 1NT   Pass  3NT   Pass

 Pass  Pass  

 

My partner really got excited with my 1nt bid. The idea of 1d is great to discourage partner. Anyhow I'm not sure if I were in his shoes I will jump to game with that hand and a passed partner.

On the one hand, I wouldn't have bid 3NT with East's hand, I would have bid 2NT*. It's close...your milage may vary.

 

But even if he'd had an automatic 3NT bid (give him the Q♥, for example, or a 6th diamond), and you're still dead. His hand is borderline, yours isn't.

 

*as an Intermediate player known to be somewhat insane.

[kenrexford]

This hand is a good example of the benefits of the Herbert Negative here, especially after 1♣-X-P. (1♥/1♠ would be legitimate, 4-card, with constructive values; 1♦ is artificial and usually weak.)

 

I'm not sure myself why this innovation from years ago never took off. If Lebensohl after weak two's make sense, why not Herbert Negatives after 1♣-X-P, 2♣(Precision)-X-P, 3♣-X-P, and other auctions?

 

Not only does the Herbert Negative structure provide a solution for this hand. It also allows partner to know that 1♣-X-P-1♥, for instance, shows 4+ hearts assuredly and an expectation of at least 6 HCP (or whatever your agreed minimum for constructive would be). Also, it allows doubler to not get excited because of a shapely hand like shown. Further, it allows doubler to actually handle a stronger hand better.