Responder rebids his suit on 2/1

[silent147]

Hi, I am learning Two over One System in Japan.

 

I want to learn the system called "Lawrence Style", so I read "Workbook on 2/1(1983)" and Mike's CDROM(2002). In Workbook, when responder rebids his suit(1S-2C;2D-3C), that is game invitation and 2C's game forcing is canceled. (so this is almost game focing.) But in CD, that sequence is not invitation, and still game focing.

 

Today, does the Lawrence Style mean "3C is forcing"?

[ohioply]

If responder rebids his suit (1S-2C-2S-3C), is it forcing?  Recommendation: Yes (Hardy style), if you want to keep your system as simple as possible. No (Lawrence style), if you want a more flexible structure.

  Note: In Hardy 2-over-1, this rebid is 100-percent forcing. In the Lawrence system, responder can make a 2-over-1 in a minor if he has around 10-11 pts. and a 6+-card suit. This rebid is invitational (and therefore passable) only in auctions where opener has made a "non-fitting" rebid of 2 of a suit (1S-2C-2D, 2H or 2S) and has not shown extra values. Responder's rebid of his suit is forcing to game if opener has has made a “fitting” rebid of 2NT or has shown extra values (a reverse: 1H-2D-2S or 3C).

 

 

http://www.prairienet.org/bridge/2over1.htm

 

This site has some very interesting tips for playing many systems. It recommends you ask your partner if he is playing hardy or lawrence style, and to ask about this sequence and 1d-2c whether this is game forcing as well.

[pclayton]

My understanding is that if you sit down with an expert partner for the 1st time and you agree on "Lawrence 2/1", the following are true:

 

1. A 2/1 is a 'soft' game force, where a rebid of responder's suit is usually not a GF.

2. A rebid of Opener's major does not promise 6

3. Reverses by opener and high reverses promise extra values and set up a GF.

 

Your question is complicated, since it has ramifications on all areas of constructive bidding, but the soft GF is not the standard these days. Most play the 2/1 as 100% GF.

[pbleighton]

"My understanding is that if you sit down with an expert partner for the 1st time and you agree on "Lawrence 2/1", the following are true:

 

1. A 2/1 is a 'soft' game force, where a rebid of responder's suit is usually not a GF.

2. A rebid of Opener's major does not promise 6

3. Reverses by opener and high reverses promise extra values and set up a GF.

 

Your question is complicated, since it has ramifications on all areas of constructive bidding, but the soft GF is not the standard these days. Most play the 2/1 as 100% GF."

 

Phil, I've never really understood the "almost GF" style. What does responder do with a single-suited GF hand? Do you temporize, then go past 3NT?

 

i.e. 1S-2C-2S-3D (oops, can't rebid clubs with my nice 14 count, will be my diamond fragment instead)-3NT-????

 

Peter

[ohioply]

My understanding is that if you sit down with an expert partner for the 1st time and you agree on "Lawrence 2/1", the following are true:

 

1. A 2/1 is a 'soft' game force, where a rebid of responder's suit is usually not a GF.

2. A rebid of Opener's major does not promise 6

3. Reverses by opener and high reverses promise extra values and set up a GF.

 

Your question is complicated, since it has ramifications on all areas of constructive bidding, but the soft GF is not the standard these days. Most play the 2/1 as 100% GF.

I think a little clairification is needed for your #1 example: any 2/1 bid over a major is a full game force IF opener is not in 3rd or 4th seat and if ops do not interfere between opener and responder with either a double or a bid. This is true for both hardy and lawrence styles wtih the exception of 1major with responder rebidding.

I believe the "soft" game force would only be in 2/1 over 1d for lawrence style.

[ArcLight]

> In Workbook, when responder rebids his suit(1S-2C;2D-3C), that is game invitation and 2C's game forcing is canceled. (so this is almost game focing.) But in CD, that sequence is not invitation, and still game focing.

 

 

In the CD this is forcing because you have not yet reached a game contract (3NT or 4M)

 

However, just because its forcing, doesn't mean you will ALWAYS end in game.

You can sign off in 4 of a minor if you can't find a fit or stopeprs for 3NT.

 

Forcing = you can't pass for now, but you can pass once beyond 3NT

That is a key difference between the Lawrence style and Hardy style.

[pclayton]

The Lawrence 2/1 Workbook discusses both the forcing and the non-forcing approaches, but uses the non-forcing approach for most of the text.

 

I don't know what the CD says, I don't have it.

 

However, in the vernacular of bidding, "Lawrence 2/1" is a soft 2/1.

 

Phil, I've never really understood the "almost GF" style. What does responder do with a single-suited GF hand? Do you temporize, then go past 3NT?

 

i.e. 1S-2C-2S-3D (oops, can't rebid clubs with my nice 14 count, will be my diamond fragment instead)-3NT-????

 

Peter: yes, responder has to do something other than rebid the suit to create a game force. Sometimes the sequences become 'bulky', although 2N is usually available as a stall, instead of 3♦.

[silent147]

Thanks for the opinions though it is my poor English.

 

ohioply says:

http://www.prairienet.org/bridge/2over1.htm

 

This site has some very interesting tips for playing many systems. It recommends you ask your partner if he is playing hardy or lawrence style, and to ask about this sequence and 1d-2c whether this is game forcing as well.

 

This article, in Karen's Bridge Library Site, http://www.prairienet.org/bridge/ is my most basic 2/1 knowledgement in early days. I thought the content of this article to be a Lawrence style.

 

pclayton says:

My understanding is that if you sit down with an expert partner for the 1st time and you agree on "Lawrence 2/1", the following are true:

 

1. A 2/1 is a 'soft' game force, where a rebid of responder's suit is usually not a GF.

2. A rebid of Opener's major does not promise 6

3. Reverses by opener and high reverses promise extra values and set up a GF.

 

Your question is complicated, since it has ramifications on all areas of constructive bidding, but the soft GF is not the standard these days. Most play the 2/1 as 100% GF.

 

Thanks your precious opinion. I will refer very much.

 

One expert wrote article about this, Fred Gitelman.

BBO->Explore Bridge->Bridge Library->English->Lectures->Transcript of Lecture 3

"Introduction to 2 over 1 Game Force - Bridge Base Online Lecture - May 30, 2001

 

He says, as follows.

There are several popular ways in which 2/1 GF has been modifled in an attempt to narrow some of the ranges of some of the bids. One area of great concern is responder's invitational 1-suiters.

 

and says,

 

Some 2/1 players deal with responder's invitational 1-suiters by agreeing that a 2/1 is forcing to game unless responder rebids his suit. So with the above example playing these methods, responder could bid 2 Hearts and then 3 Hearts to show an invitational 1-suiter (thus cancelling the original game-forcing message the 2 Heart response delivered). This variation of 2/1 GF is often abbreviated as 2/1 except rebid. 2/1 except rebid is another way of making the semi-forcing notrump a more viable agreement.

 

So, I thought that the Lawrence style (Almost Game forcing=invitational 1-suiter hand) had the possibility that was not the main stream if it was assumed that it began to learn for the present. Is it true?