Opinions please

[sceptic]

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=skt9hat76da9ca742&w=s3hq5dq754cqt9853&e=sqj654hk984d32ckj&s=sa872hj32dkjt86c6]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     1NT   Pass  2♣

 4♣    Dbl   Pass  5♦

 Pass  5♥    Dbl   Pass

 Pass  Pass  

 

 

I was South Nice p at North, this is the bidding

 

problems start over my stayman bid

 

opps bring in 4 clubs which ruin 3NT as a contract

 

Pard bids X (I hate say this) but I did not take it as 100% penalty (should I have done) any way with this quandry, I felt that penalty x of 4 clubs may not be as good as a game contract so I bid 5 diamonds, hoping this was best we could do

 

what would 4 diamonds have been if I had bid it and what would 4NT been if |I had bid it

 

any comments on all of it welcomed

[hrothgar]

Hi there

 

I suspect that a number of people are going to critique your 5♦ bid...

 

Three different points that need to be considered:

 

1. Does your initial 2♣ response promise any "real" values? This is important for a couple reasons.

 

(a) If 2♣ promises game invite+ values then you are probably in a forcing pass situation.

 

(B) If 2♣ doesn't promise values, this has a real impact on the definition of a 4♦ bid.

 

2. Is it reasonable to pull partner's double? Personally, I'd be inclined to leave the double in. This is IMPs. The difference between +500 and +620 isn't all that big.

 

3. If you are going to pull partner's double, whats the right bid? Personally, I think that 5♦ is far to unilateral.

[helene_t]

The double is penalty. In many high-level situations, dbl shows "cards", but partner already showed "cards" by opening 1NT.

[whereagles]

I would have passed 4♣. Who knows what the 4♣ bidder has, and who knows what pard had in his mind when he doubled? One thing I know: they're not going to make it and that's good enough for me :D

 

Oh, and.. was 5♦ really necessary? What's wrong with 4? Still, pard had no business taking out 5♦. For all he knew, you could have had 6♦4M or a 7-4 even...

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

- double is penalty

- 4D is certainly natural and forcing

- 4NT is probably Ace Asking, you

have the intention to place the contract.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[SoTired]

5D = pulling an obvious penalty dbl shows partner distrust. Trust partner and don't be afraid of penalty doubles. If you wanted to bid, you should have bid 4D rather than 5D. Again, you should trust partner not to pass you out below game.

 

5H = "My hand is perfect for slam opposite a jump to 5D, so I am q-bidding my ace of hearts" is the only sane meaning I can think of.

[jtfanclub]

5D = pulling an obvious penalty dbl shows partner distrust. Trust partner and don't be afraid of penalty doubles. If you wanted to bid, you should have bid 4D rather than 5D. Again, you should trust partner not to pass you out below game.

 

5H = "My hand is perfect for slam opposite a jump to 5D, so I am q-bidding my ace of hearts" is the only sane meaning I can think of.

Which fits this hand perfectly, don't you think? Opener thinks responder is 7-4 diamonds-spades, and slam prospects look great.

[neilkaz]

5♦ is a horrible bid here, but opener should pass it !

 

4♣X is getting destroyed. What a shame to let the opps bid what ever they want to interfere with your auctions and not be penalized.

 

.. neilkaz ..

[kenberg]

Let's explore options.

 

When my partner opens a NT and I have a 4-4-3-2 shape and marginal points I just pass. Even I, however, bid 2C on a 4-4-5-0 piece of trash. So I don't think opener's pass of 4C could ever really be forcing, unless they have unusual Stayman agreements. I realize brothgar said something the same, but I am saying I think almost no one plays 2C as absolutely guaranteeing values. Assuming this is a pick-up, more or less, then pass would not be totally forcing.

 

However, it seems pass would be: Unless you have the trash hand, please act. If responder has trash and passes it out it's ok. Firstly 4C might make and secondly NS were never going voluntarily past the 2 level anyway.

 

So opener could pass, as NT openers often do, when the situation is unclear to him. Presumably responder has a better idea of total assets.

 

 

Opener didn't pass, he doubled. So:

Conclusion: Double is a strong suggestion to pass, lacking some real reason to do otherwise. Exactly what a pull of the double to 4D might mean I am less sure. Certainly a LOT of shape. I guess 4-6, trying to find the right vulnerable game. I wouldn't expect opener to pass 4D. [i hope to hear if others agree here.] A pull of the X to 5D, imo, must surely be a slam try. If it exists at all as a bid.

 

At any rate, with the given S hand, pass seems clear cut. Values, no guarantee that NS have a major fit, or that they can find it if they have it, or that it will make if they have it and find it.