major opened in 3/4 chair

[dosxtres]

Hi,

 

P open a major in 3/4 chair, maybe with an opening hand, maybe without. Who knows:)?

 

reverse drury and 2-ways reverse drury handle pretty well the raises, but, without fit, a good 10 to bad 12 you didnt open, bid 2n in front of a very weak opening can carry you to a bad contract.

 

Problem is, responder has no 3 card support, and he is hcp rage is a good 10 to a bad 12.

Oper can have a weak 10-12 or a full opener 12-14

 

1♠ sound opening 13-14 and responder, 1n? with 11-12

If you say 2n natural, (10)11-12 and find partner with a weak 54 spades & hearts with 10 HCP?

 

How do you handle this?

 

and, what do you think about this treatment?

 

P open 1♠

 

Responses are:

 

2♠ 6-9(10)

3♠ weak preempt 4º+ card support

2♣ 3º card limit raise (10)11-12

2N 4º card limit raise, not balance

1n 6-9(10) with no fit or balance 6-7 with 3 cards

2♦ (10)11-12 without 3 spades

 

After 2♦ opener can show a weak 54, rebid 2♠, sign off with 2n or 3n.

[hrothgar]

From the sounds of things, you only have two real "problem" hand types:

 

1. 10+ - 12 balanced with 2 card support for partner (too strong for 1NT)

2. 10+ - 12, three suited with 0-1 card support for partner (too strong for 1NT)

 

(Its worth noting that both of these hand patterns can be shown with a 1♠ advance over a 1♥ opening)

 

I suppose that if you're playing a sound opening style, where you pass some decent 12 counts, you might want to add something complicated over your third seat 1♠ opening.

 

Personally, I think that you're making a mistake using the 2♦ for this. If it were me, I'd use 2♥ as drury type response (promising a fit). Then you can use 2♣ as a two way bid showing either a normal 2♥ advanced or your "problem" hands. 1♠ - 2♦ is natural.

[glen]

In 3/4 seat, opener without good opening values and 6 or longer in the major, will usually open a "weak" two in the major, if the hand is opened. Thus when opener does not have good opening values, usually opener will be shorter than 6 in the major.

 

Most expert partnerships play 1NT semi-forcing by the passed hand. This means that 1NT covers the range up to a maximum passed hand. However they also play 1NT here as denying a fit, unlike the "1NT forcing" scheme where some hands with a 3 card raise first start with 1NT, then rebid in opener's major. With a fit, the passed hand either bids the major directly, or uses some form of Drury.

 

After the 1NT semi-forcing response by the passed hand, opener without good opening values will pass, unless 5-5 or a 5-4-3-1 short in the other major. Thus if opener bids over 1NT, responder knows opener has at least good opening values, or has a shapely hand. So responder can continue over opener's rebid to show invite values if they are held, knowing that opener will have some playing value.

[helene_t]

You will have to play the 1NT response by a passed hand as 10-11(12). Opener will have to catter for this by rebidding with 14, maybe a good 13.

 

In modern 5-card major styles, the 1NT is (semi)-forcing showing 6-11(12) even after a major suit opening in 1st or 2nd seat. Drury fits best into that style. Most partnerships play

1M-1NT

2♣*

as possibly a 3-card and responder must catter ffor this by trying not to raise clubs with only 4-card support. With 5332,3532 or 4531, opener may have to rebid 2♦ on a 3-card.

 

Alternatively (recomend by Dutch expert Leon Jacobs), play a 14-16 1NT then you don't have the problem: With 13 you pass responder's 1NT, with 14 you open 1NT.

[pclayton]

Passed hand bidding can be a headache. I personally don't like 2-way drury, unless your 3rd seat openings can be really awful.

 

Here's what I play:

 

1N = 6 to a very bad 12 that didn't want to open in 1st.

2♣ = reverse drury

2♦/2♥ = natural, denying a fit and great 9 to 11 points.

2♠ = 3 or 4 card support

2N = club suit, 9-11

3 non spades = fitted

 

We play Gazilli in all seats now, so the responses to the wide ranging 1N are easy. Opener can distinguish between a weak hand that is running from 1N to a strongish (15-17) to a very strong hand. Without Gazilli, 2 of a new suit tends to be very wide ranging.

 

By the way, responder should be hesitant to take a doubleton preference, since the opener's major is frequently 4 cards.

[mikeh]

You can choose between simple but inefficient methods or more complex but more effective methods. Phil has set out his relatively complex method. Here is an alternative:

 

1N semi-forcing. Opener passes with balanced minimums and otherwise bids as if he was a first seat opener. In our case that includes 2♣ on as few as 2: 5332, 4522 are the common hand types for a 2 card rebid.

 

We play BART over 2♣... this is not the thread for an explication of BART, but I highly recommend it to all who play a method involving a forcing NT response to 1Major. This allows us to handle almost all hand types if opener rebids 2♣.

 

2♣ is 3 card drury.

 

2♦ is 4 card drury. I was a late convert to 2 way drury, but my then partner and I had a couple fo bad experiences with responder bidding 2♦ on 9-10 hcp and a 5 card suit, and catching opener with a minimum 5314 or the like.. so we chose 2♦ as 4 card drury partly because of its intrinsic merits (we open 4 card majors freely in 3rd and 4th and knowing of the degree of support is often very useful) and partly to prevent us from repeating those hands.

 

2N is an invitational hand with a single minor: opener bids 3♣ if he would pass 3♣... he may or may not like ♦s... if he likes them, he can bid over responder's correction to 3♦. If he likes ♣s but not ♦s, he bids 3♦. Other bids are natural...

 

3♣ is invitational with both minors: opener can pass, bid 3♦ to play or make another natural call.

 

Jumpshifts are fit-showing: 3 of the major shows ♣s and the major.