who leading the tango?

[Gpm_bg]

[hv=d=s&v=b&s=saj94hdk1097643cq5]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

So, South opening 1♦->followed by 1♥ by East, DBL from partner, pass , you rebid 1♠, pass (East),3NT by partner, DBL (West),

Your call now ?

[Poky]

Pass.

 

No resaon not to believe partner is doing the right action.

[gwnn]

so the bidding went

1♦-1♥-X-p

1♠-p-3NT-x?

 

I don't have my compass on me but you might have mistaken one of the players' position?

 

Anyway, pass should do it. partner knows better.

[brianshark]

I'm more reluctant to pass. Partner will make a judgement call based on the expectancy that you have a more normal 5422 shape and 12-14 pts or so. You have fewer points and more extreme shape. I'm thinking pulling to 4♦ might not be such a bad idea.

[Gpm_bg]

so the bidding went

1♦-1♥-X-p

1♠-p-3NT-x?

Yep. That's the whole bidding so far. :)

 

On 4♦ you will get bid 4♥ from partner.

You again ?

[brianshark]

Ooh... this is more like a live auction than a quiz.

 

I'll cue my ♠ Ace.

[Finch]

I wouldn't dream of passing 3NT even before it was doubled; I'm certainly not doing so now.

 

I don't think partner's 4H bid should be a slam try, it should be offering 4S or 5D - particularly as I'm pretty much marked with a heart void. But this is all getting a bit murky so I'll just bid 4S.

 

(I'm assuming partner's double showed four spades....if it denied 4S this is all going to be very different)

[brianshark]

Yes, it's definately a little unclear where we're going. I'm worried that partner's Dbl might not have been a genuine ♠ suit rather a place-holder for the delayed jump to 3NT. But partner shouldn't expect me to have more than 4 ♠s. If I had 6-5 shape, I'd have pulled to 4♠ rather than 4♦. That's why I think 4♠ is a safe bid... either partner genuine ♠ support, or has short spades, is trying for slam, and should interpret my bid as having an ace.

[Gpm_bg]

I don't think partner's 4H bid should be a slam try, it should be offering 4S or 5D - particularly as I'm pretty much marked with a heart void.  But this is all getting a bit murky so I'll just bid 4S.

 

(I'm assuming partner's double showed four spades....if it denied 4S this is all going to be very different)

partner can't hold 4th♠, he/she will cuebid 2♥ after your 1♠ bid.

 

so the both hands are :

 

[hv=d=s&v=b&n=s1085haq974dajca98&s=saj94hdk1097643cq5]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

How do you plan to play 6♦with ♣lead?

[the hog]

Partner needs to learn how to bid for a start. Why on earth X if you are going to bid 3NT anyway?

[Finch]

I don't understand partner's double of 1H.

If it systemically denied 4 spades, you should have said so at the start of the thread.

 

Otherwise, what was stopping him bidding 3NT last round (which I would not have pulled)?

[Gpm_bg]

Why should DBL always promise 4th♠ in the sequence of 1♦ -> 1♥-> DBL or 4th♥ in 1♦->1♠->DBL ?

 

what do you will bid with [hv=d=n&v=n&s=sak93hq4d106cakj97]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

DBL, right ?

 

but with [hv=d=n&v=n&s=sak93hq4d106cakj97]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

pass or 1nt ? or again DBL ?

[Finch]

What double shows is a matter of partnership agreement. The most common - and definitely 'standard without discussion' agreement is that double promises four spades.

 

The second most common agreement is that double explicitly denies four spades.

 

It is not a common agreement to play that double may or may not have four spades.

 

As for your sample hands, after 1♦ - (1♥) I would bid 2♣ on both of them. I have game forcing values and clubs are my longest suit, so I bid them.

 

The sequence 1♦ - (1♠) - Dble is commonly played as promising four hearts but very rarely indeed may have only three, however opener bids on assumption partner has at least 4 (e.g. is allowed to jump to game in hearts).

[cherdano]

What Frances said. Double-then-3N shows a 3N bid with 4 spades on the side.

[the hog]

What Frances said. Double-then-3N shows a 3N bid with 4 spades on the side.

What Frances said. Double-then-3N shows a 3N bid with 4 spades on the side.

 

"It ain't necessarily so...." Many players, and a better style anyway imo, is to bid 1S if you have 4+. This means that the X shows minor suits.

 

Where your pd's auction made no sense whatsoever, is that if he was going to bid 3NT after your response, why X in the first place? Just bid 3NT immediately. The x is both redundant and illogical.

[cherdano]

What Frances said. Double-then-3N shows a 3N bid with 4 spades on the side.

What Frances said. Double-then-3N shows a 3N bid with 4 spades on the side.

 

"It ain't necessarily so...." Many players, and a better style anyway imo, is to bid 1S if you have 4+. This means that the X shows minor suits.

I play that too, but it just ain't standard anywhere I have played.

[mikeh]

What double shows is a matter of partnership agreement. The most common - and definitely 'standard without discussion' agreement is that double promises four spades.

 

The second most common agreement is that double explicitly denies four spades.

 

It is not a common agreement to play that double may or may not have four spades.

 

As for your sample hands, after 1♦ - (1♥) I would bid 2♣ on both of them. I have game forcing values and clubs are my longest suit, so I bid them.

 

The sequence 1♦ - (1♠) - Dble is commonly played as promising four hearts but very rarely indeed may have only three, however opener bids on assumption partner has at least 4 (e.g. is allowed to jump to game in hearts).

Good answer: I agree entirely...

[whereagles]

Didn't anyone suspect that..

 

1. having a void heart

2. RHO not supporting hearts

3. pard bidding 3NT

 

pard's double was for PENALTIES, as it actually was?

[000002]

he is an excellent bidder who take a bdl then jump 3nt with:

Txx

AQxxx

AJ

Axx

i like this bidding for a latent slam sense basedon ♥AQ and 16total HCPs.

 

an MASTER do a great juge on the table.

 

regards 000002

[the hog]

he is an excellent bidder who take a bdl then jump 3nt with:

Txx

AQxxx

AJ

Axx

i like this bidding for a latent slam sense basedon ♥AQ and 16total HCPs.

 

an MASTER do a great juge on the table.

 

regards 000002

As you have 3 Spades to the T, and as your best suit, (H), is likely to be facing a singleton or void, I don't regard this player as much of a "master". A "miss ter", maybe.

[mike777]

he is an excellent bidder who take a bdl then jump 3nt with:

Txx

AQxxx

AJ

Axx

i like this bidding for a latent slam sense basedon ♥AQ and 16total HCPs.

 

an MASTER do a great juge on the table.

 

regards 000002

As you have 3 Spades to the T, and as your best suit, (H), is likely to be facing a singleton or void, I don't regard this player as much of a "master". A "miss ter", maybe.

What no 5d opener? If not Ron needs to post a long discussion.

 

We are 7-4 yes?

 

Mr. Ron posts not once, not twice but three times and does not even explain why 5d is correct....incorrect on this hand? Director! :)

[Gpm_bg]

That's the full diagram of the hands[hv=d=n&v=n&n=saj94hdk1097643cq5&w=skq76h65dq85ck642&e=s32hkj10832d2cj1073&s=s1085haq974dajca98]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

The real reached contract :

 

N--->E--->S--->W

1♦-->1♥-->DBL->Pass

3♦-->Pass->3NT->DBL

5♦-->Pass->5NT->DBL

Pass->Pass-->RDBL->All passed

 

♥lead

 

5NTXX=

[000002]

he is an excellent bidder who take a bdl then jump 3nt with:

Txx

AQxxx

AJ

Axx

i like this bidding for a latent slam sense basedon ♥AQ and 16total HCPs.

 

an MASTER do a great juge on the table.

 

regards 000002

As you have 3 Spades to the T, and as your best suit, (H), is likely to be facing a singleton or void, I don't regard this player as much of a "master". A "miss ter", maybe.

:)

[hv=s=skqjhxxdkqxxxxckx]133|100|1d-1h,would u like to shift if pd shut to 3nt immediately? [/hv]

 

 

 

regards 000002

[Jboling]

As for your sample hands, after 1♦ - (1♥) I would bid 2♣ on both of them. I have game forcing values and clubs are my longest suit, so I bid them.

Do you mean that default would be that 2♣ is gameforcing, or just roundforcing? How would you bid a hand with a good club suit, but less than gameforcing strength? Probabaly not double followed by clubs, as you said double promises spades. 2♣ followed by a repeated bid in clubs or pass of a limited bid by partner?

 

I prefer the agreement that 2♣ is nonforcing, I want the common competive handtypes off my chest as fast as possible, so I would have to double and bid clubs next with a gameforcing hand. So my double normally promises 4 card in other major, but can also be a strong singlesuited hand. So double followed by 3NT would still be cards for 3NT and four cards in the other major.

[mr1303]

I don't see where this thread is going at all.

 

1) If partner's double is for penalty, I pass. Void or no void.

2) If partner'd double is for take-out, I want to know whether it a) shows 4 spades or :) denies 4 spades. If a) I definitely bid 4S over the double of 3NT, if :) I put down the dummy.

 

Even if I play non-forcing free bids, they only apply if the intervention has forced me to bid higher than I wanted to. I believe this is common.

 

E.g 1D (1S) 2H is not forcing, because the intervention has removed the 1H bid. However 1D (1H) 2C is still forcing, since if the opponent had passed I'd still have to bid clubs at the 2 level.