Not an interesting hand

[neilkaz]

In what has become a very interesting thread, I think The Hog has hit the nail on the head with the comment pertaining to using 2NT as a catch all for minimum bids here and not worrying about a ♦ stop. If responder wants to play 3NT he can ask for a stop with 3♦.

 

Try rebidding with xx,AQxxx,xxx,AQx after 2♠ as an example.

 

Patterning out with minimum NT bids is quite useful, IMHO, and a stopper can still be found later.

 

The sequences where opener is forced to rebid at the 3 level or 2NT but responders isn't GF can be difficult.

 

.. neilkaz ..

[Winstonm]

Isn't the concept of a 1-round that promises a rebid not quite accurate - a more accurate description would be "promises another bid unless partner shows a minimum?"

 

Take for example this auction:

1H-2C-2D-P

2H- P- ?

 

Why should responder have to bid again with Jxx, xx, AKQxx, xxx if partner's 2H shows no extra values and what else is partner to do with Kxx, AKJxx, xx, Jxx?

 

My definition of a 1-round force is it is forcing on partner, he can't pass, but it does not guarantee a rebid if partner shows minimum values.

 

2N can certainly be used in some auctions to separate, and there is some merit to the idea of patterning out with stopper ask at the 3 level, but that does not allow 2N as a final contract, which may be the best spot.

 

My solution is inelegant, but playable, and that is any direct suit bid by opener, including a raise of partner, as well as 2N, shows minimum values and is non-forcing, leaving cue bid as an all-purpose game force with a solid opening hand, around a good 14 up.

 

In the hand shown, though, I am with the majority and would have simply bid 4H over 2S - because of space constraints, I'm not necessarily looking for the very best game but a reasonable game and 4H seems a decent spot.

 

For those who believe 3H should be forcing and that the 2S bidder should bid again, I curse you to hold every time this hand in this auction: x, AK109xx, KJxx, xx. :)

[Echognome]

Take for example this auction:

1H-2C-2D-P

2H- P- ?

 

Why should responder have to bid again with Jxx, xx, AKQxx, xxx if partner's 2H shows no extra values and what else is partner to do with Kxx, AKJxx, xx, Jxx?

I think this is just a matter of agreement. How would the hand be bid in SAYC if there were no 2♣ bid? If responder bids 2♦ he promises a rebid (seemingly 2NT). In ACOL, 2♦ does not promise a rebid, so the hand would pass 2♥. It's just about being consistent with your own agreements as they will affect your overall bidding plan. Some play 2X as constructive but non-forcing, others as forcing, but not promising a rebid, others as forcing but promising a rebid, etc. etc. Good point for partnership discussion.

[Codo]

In what has become a very interesting thread, I think The Hog has hit the nail on the head with the comment pertaining to using 2NT as a catch all for minimum bids here and not worrying about a ♦ stop. If responder wants to play 3NT he can ask for a stop with 3♦.

 

Try rebidding with xx,AQxxx,xxx,AQx after 2♠ as an example.

 

Patterning out with minimum NT bids is quite useful, IMHO, and a stopper can still be found later.

 

The sequences where opener is forced to rebid at the 3 level or 2NT but responders isn't GF can be difficult.

 

.. neilkaz ..

Your example hand is ugly for the natural 2 NT bidders, for sure. But like any other hand, this proofes nothing. Mikeh showed a hand, where 2 NT was the given call and where your approach had problems in reaching the right contract.

 

You have no fit, so NT is your most likely game. I doubt, that giving up the benefits of 2 NT as a natural bid here is outweighted by the small win to show now, that you have minimum or not.

 

I am quite sure, that the problem occurs one bid earlier: IF you bid 2 Spade as natural and forcing, you should be aware, that you will search a fit at a quite high level, so I believe, that you should use 2 Spade as either game forcing or as NFB but as nothing inbetween. I prefer NFB and had bid Easts hand with 2 Spade as a NFB or with X followed by 2 Spade otherwise.

[Wackojack]

Storm in a teacup. You partner wasn't rude, just stupid (or if you like, lacking an in-depth knowledge of bridge) Apparently, you said nothing at the table, so no harm done. Some of the posters have put the boot in to you (imo unjustifyably for bridge reasons). Thats happens in the forum.

 

fwiiw, the discussion taught me a little, but not much, about the benefits of g/b and neg free bids.