Winstonm Posted January 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Forever they have done polls on parts of the Constitution, Bill of Rights and how many are in favor of small parts of it. This polls rarely get more than a third in favor of these subversive ideas. Suprised to not hear more from you on McCain/Feingold, talk about abetting free speech or not being allowed to petition the government. Yet the U.S. Supreme Court allowed large parts of this to go forward. Shame on them. Livermore's book is of course a classic.Mike, I believe you are talking about McCain/Feingold campaign finance? I don't find that as much an issue at present as these, which I think epitamize the constitutional warping of the current administration: The Patriot Act - allows what was once illegal search and seizures.The John Warner Defense Act - abolishes posse commitatusThe Military Commission Act - abolishes habeus corpus. Campaign finance has to take a back seat right now - in my views. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 ok :D I will go out on that lonely limb of contraversy :( ....to further discussion and suggest that McCain Feingold is a greater threat to freedom of speech and the right to petition the government than the other three combined ;) I say this knowing full well that that at least 5 men and/or women of the US Supreme Court who are a heck of alot smarter than me disagree. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted January 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 ok :D I will go out on that lonely limb of contraversy :( ....to further discussion and suggest that McCain Feingold is a greater threat to freedom of speech and the right to petition the government than the other three combined ;) I say this knowing full well that that at least 5 men and/or women of the US Supreme Court who are a heck of alot smarter than me disagree. B)OK, you have my attention. Would you elaborate on your reasons? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 "First this: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."" Well for starters, took your quote of some subversive law that seem to focus your posting on free speech and the right to petition the government. Those 3 laws you quote may affect other "rights" but I really do believe less so speech and petitions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Mike, You're dead right. McCain-Feingold is much more dangerous than the others because of the implicit mechanism to funnel both money and power in the Swiss cheese of the language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted January 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 O.K., guys, I am either: 1) incredibly dim-witted (a distinct possibility) or 2) utterly baffled (or both). What provisions of M/F is the fear? Is it due to the increased influence of PACs? Or is it the "no soft money" provisions? In my opinion, M/F doesn't really alter anything that I can see - politicians have for decades now been in the pockets of those who financed their elections, and whether that is "soft" money from unions or "hard" money from a PAC, the ones who dolled out the loot are going to get the spoils. If I am wrong, enlighten me, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Granted this is a huge issue with many side issues. Let's try and focus on just a few for starters. 1) I think most if not all would agree this law affects the political process in a very broad sense of the word. Political parties, positions, ads and candidates for starters are limited.2) I think most would agree this limits that process again in a broad sense of the phrase.3) The US Supreme Court I think ruled it limits it in a const. legal sense in a very close and divise vote.4) This law affects how and what I can say during an election and how and what I can do after the election if I disagree with my local rep.5) Those who voted for the new law(majority) say this is a good thing compared to the old way/laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted January 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 O.K., Obviously I need to look closer - perhaps you might do the same with the John Warner Defense Act? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 I tend to stay out of the water cooler... but I thought a relook at this 2002 article in light of recent events would be, well, either entertaining or depressing... Bill of rights reduced to six One of my favorite quotes was: "The Bill of Rights was written more than 200 years ago, long before anyone could even fathom the existence of wiretapping technology or surveillance cameras," Ashcroft said. "Yet through a bizarre fluke, it was still somehow worded in such a way as to restrict use of these devices. Clearly, it had to go before it could do more serious damage in the future." Have a read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winstonm Posted January 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Ben, that is absolutely perfect - brilliantly written showing a deep understanding by the writer of the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted January 7, 2007 Report Share Posted January 7, 2007 the BoR was and is genius, and i'm very worried about the way things are headed... of course we the people will be unable to do much about it, being effectively disarmed as we are... we cannot protect ourselves from what the founders considered to be the greatest evil of all - government Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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