Echognome Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 Now that I'm immersed back in the ACBL, I wanted to come up with a system that is GCC compliant, but still had some of the benefits of my strong club, relay system. I will summarize as best I can the result. (The system notes are currently a fairly dense 20 pages with very few example hands. Please message me if you are interested.) 1♣ 16+ Any shape OR equivalent playing strength (Rule of 25)-1♦ 0-8 OR 9+ with <2 controls---1♥ 19+ Any shape------1♠ 0-5 OR 0 controls----------1NT 19-21 BAL----------2♣ ART GF----------2♦/♥/♠ 19-21 NAT nf----------2NT 22-23 BAL------1NT+ Semi-pos (GF on 2-up track)---1♠ 16-18 4+♠, unbal---1NT 16-18 bal or semi-bal---Others 16-18 Natural nf-1♥ 4+♥ unbal (then relays)-1♠ 4+♠, <4♥ unbal (then relays)-1NT 4432 or 4333 (then modified 1NT structure where invites are slammish)-2♣ 5+♣ unbal (then relays)-2♦ 5+♦ unbal (then relays)-2♥ 3-suited short major (then relays)-2♠ 55 minors (then relays)-2NT+ 4♣, longer ♦ Intervention: There is a lot of discussion in the notes about intervention. Generally after overcalls at the 1-level, Pass is 6-8 any and bids are natural but on the 2-up track. Dbl is 0-5 any and relays are off (except 2♣ which is ART GF). Over 2-level intervention, Pass is 0-5, DBL is 6-8 OR positive with no 5 card suit. Double is takeout from both sides (usually with a desire to relay). Relays are off if we will be on the 5-up track or higher. 1♦ 10-15, Usually 4+♦ (although may be 4135 or 1435), unbalanced Bidding fairly natural with an inverted 2♦. We also use 2-way nmf after a 1NT rebid. Raise a major almost always on 3 card support. Intervention: After a double, we play transfers starting with XX up to 2♣ which is a good ♦ raise. After an overcall, we play fairly standard negative doubles. 1♥ 10-15, 5+♥ (4+ opposite PH)-1♠ Natural forcing-1NT Natural nf-2♣ ART, INV+ (see below)-2♦ LIM+ in ♥ (see below)-2♥ 5-9 3-4♥-2♠ Unknown Mini-splinter (4+♥, <LIM)-2NT SJS in ♠ (Fit Jump if PH)-3♣/3♦ SJS (Fit Jump if PH)-3♥ PRE-3♠ LIM splinter (unknown singleton)-3NT Void ♠ LIM splinter-4♣/♦ Void LIM splinter-4♥ To Play 1♥ - 2♣ - ?-2♦ ART min with 5♥ OR max with 6♥ and 4 card side suit OR max with 6 broken ♥-2♥ 6♥ min-2♠ 5♥, 4 card side suit max (2N asks, then HML)-2NT 6♥, 5 card side suit max (3♣ asks, then HML)-3♣/♦ 55 max-3♥ max with 6 solid ♥-3♠ 5♠/6♥ min-3NT 5332 max 1♥ - 2♦ - ?-2♥ Any min, then---2♠ SSGT (any suit)---2NT LSGT with ♠---3♣/♦ LSGT---3♥ General try-2♠ SSGT (any suit)-2NT LSGT with ♠-3♣/♦ LSGT-3♥ General try 1♠ 10-15, 5+♠ (4+ opposite PH)similar to above, except-2♦ 5+♥, any range-2♥ LIM+ in ♠-2NT Mini-splinter-3NT LIM splinter (unknown singleton) 1♠ - 2♣ - ?-2♦ ART min with 5♠ OR max with 6♠ and 4 card side suit OR max with 6 broken ♠-2♥ 4+♥ min-2♠ 6♠ min-2NT 5♠, 4 card side suit max (3♣ asks then HML)-3♣/♦/♥ 55 max-3♠ 6 solid ♠ max-3NT 5332 max Intervention: If opponents double, we play XX is good hand. Transfers start with 1NT (showing ♣) and go through 2M-1 (good raise). Then we play systems on, but as though we are a PH (so jumps are fitted). If opponents overcall, we play fairly standard negative doubles and new suits are forcing. 1NT (good)12 - 15 Bal or semi-Bal We use a stayman (+ smolen) system with transfers and transfer extensions (thanks Justin). The higher bids are:-2♠ --> 2NT, then 3m = slammish, 3M = shortness with 55 minors-2NT --> 3♣, then P/3♦ = sign-off, 3M = shortness 3-suited-3m = INV, 6+-3M = shortness with (31)(45) type hand Intervention: If opponents double, we play XX is business. Pass is neutral (but opener is allowed to pull to a 5cm). Bids are natural, but may be the start of a runout (XX is rescue). If opponents overcall, we play double is penalty. 2NT puppets 3♣ as leb. 3♣+ are transfers (3♠=clubs). 2♣ 10-15, 6+♣, may have 4cM-2♦ INV+ relay-2♥/♠ 5+ INV-2NT 55 outside of ♣GF. 3♣ asks then shortness bid. 2♦ 10-15, 3-suited short ♦-2♥/♠/3♣ To Play-2NT Asking (GF opposite max) 2♥/♠ 5-9, PRE-2NT Asking (Ogust/Blue Club responses) 2NT 55 minors PRE or GF-3♣/♦/4♣/♦/5♣/♦ To Play-3♥-->3♠ Then bids are game/slam INV-3♠-->3NT Then bids are RKCB/strong slam try-3NT/4♥/4♠ To Play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 I considered trying to create a GCC legal MOSCITO variant: Here's what I (eventually) settled on 2N = 5+ Clubs and 5+ Diamonds, 8 - 112♠ = 6+ Spades, 8 - 112♥ = 6+ Hearts 8 - 112♦ = 6+ Diamonds 10 - 142♣ = 6+ Clubs 10 - 141N = 11+ - 14 Balanced (including 2=2=54 patterns)1♠ = Unbalanced with 4+ Spades, 9 - 141♥ = Unbalanced with 4+ Hearts, 9 - 141♦ = Unbalanced with 4+ Hearts and 4+ Spades, 9 - 14 OR Unbalanced with 4+ Clubs and 4+ Diamonds, 9 - 141♣ = Strong My main issue with GCC versions of MOSCITO was always trying to develop a good response structure over the 1M openings. I think that you should be able to build something reasonable over this opening structure. The crucial element is that the 2♠/2♥/1♦ openings off load the weak hand types from 1M. Accordingly, you can get away with a forcing 2/1 structure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 Unfortunately this isn't particularly close to general chart. The main issue is that artificial non-jump responses to 1M (other than 1NT) are not allowed unless they promise GF or better values. This disallows your 1M-2♣/♦ and 1♠-2♥ sequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted January 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 Unfortunately this isn't particularly close to general chart. The main issue is that artificial non-jump responses to 1M (other than 1NT) are not allowed unless they promise GF or better values. This disallows your 1M-2♣/♦ and 1♠-2♥ sequences.Shame that. I guess "power responses" are not legal. ;) Well the fix is to simply play 2/1 after 1M opening. Was just hoping there was some scope for a better mousetrap. Once we get to midchart land, I'd prefer GF relays. So guess it'll have to be the 1♣ opener plus pretty standard stuff otherwise. Making me miss EBU land: Allowed at Levels 2, 3 and 411 D 1 General(a) Any response which is always game forcing is permitted.(b ) Any response showing at least four cards in the suit bid is permitted, as is anatural response in no trumps. Such responses may be forcing or non-forcing.(c ) Any response which shows support for partner and at least the values for gameopposite an opening which is a king above a minimum is permitted.(d) Any natural raise in opener’s suit is permitted; this may show fewer than fourcards in the suit bid. and Allowed at Levels 3 and 411 D 8 DevelopmentsAll responses and continuations are allowed with or without intervention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 A few comments here: (1) Your auctions 1♠-2♣, 1♠-2♦, and 1♥-2♣ appear not to be legal at EBU level 2. I suppose level 2 is roughly the equivalent of the general chart. The only substantial difference in regulation here is that ACBL requires that c on the EBU regulation (artificial raises which are not always GF) to be jumps. (2) Note that ACBL would allow 1M-2♣ as an artificial game force; it's the invitational or better meaning that's not allowed. In fact even playing relays over this appears to be okay (perhaps this is "rules on the ground" though, since the GCC does claim to prohibit relay systems). (3) The ACBL mid-chart allows "all constructive responses" except for "non-game-forcing relay systems." This appears to allow the methods you want to play in their entirety. In fact if anyone would ever approve a defense to transfer opening bids your original methods might be allowed. This is virtually identical to the EBU "level 3 and 4" regulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 "I suppose level 2 is roughly the equivalent of the general chart." Level 2 is very rarely used. Level 3 is now barely used by the EBU, only by clubs and counties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted January 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 A few comments here: (1) Your auctions 1♠-2♣, 1♠-2♦, and 1♥-2♣ appear not to be legal at EBU level 2. I suppose level 2 is roughly the equivalent of the general chart. The only substantial difference in regulation here is that ACBL requires that c on the EBU regulation (artificial raises which are not always GF) to be jumps. (2) Note that ACBL would allow 1M-2♣ as an artificial game force; it's the invitational or better meaning that's not allowed. In fact even playing relays over this appears to be okay (perhaps this is "rules on the ground" though, since the GCC does claim to prohibit relay systems). (3) The ACBL mid-chart allows "all constructive responses" except for "non-game-forcing relay systems." This appears to allow the methods you want to play in their entirety. In fact if anyone would ever approve a defense to transfer opening bids your original methods might be allowed. This is virtually identical to the EBU "level 3 and 4" regulations.I actually didn't want to compare the two countries' regulations, but I did leave off a chunk of Level 2: 11 D 2 To a 1♣/♦ openingThe following responses are also permitted:A 1♦ or 1♥ response to 1♣and a 1♥ or 1♠ response to 1♦may be played as(a) artificial, negative or semi-negative; or(b ) any agreed meaning, game forcing. 11 D 3 To a 1♥ openingThe following responses are also permitted:(a) A 1♠ response may be played as artificial and forcing with any number ofmeanings.(b ) A 1NT response may be played as any one of:--(1) natural--(2) non-forcing, unsuitable for any other response--(3) artificial and forcing with any number of meanings--(4) 4+ Spades, forcing for one round--(5) 5+ Spades, forcing for one round(c ) A 2♣ or 2♦ response may be played as semi-natural, ie normally natural but may be only 3 cards, forcing. 11 D 4 To a 1♠ openingThe following responses are also permitted:(a) A 1NT response may be played as any one of:--(1) natural--(2) non-forcing, unsuitable for any other response--(3) artificial and forcing with any number of meanings(:rolleyes: A 2♣ or 2♦ response may be played as semi-natural, ie normally natural but may be only 3 cards, forcing. 11 D 5 CanapéCanapé style responses, where the shorter suit is bid before the longer, are permitted.Both suits must contain at least four cards. So my interpretation of that is that I could play (even non GF) relays over 1♥ and 1♠ and GF relays over 1♦. I agree that my 2♣ bid and 2♦ (when showing ♥) may not be allowed at Level 2. As Mike says, no competitions are Level 2 and the EBU is trying to get rid of Level 3. Well, no reason to cry over spillt milk. At GCC it'll be 2/1 and at midchart, the GF relays will be back. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted January 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Here is take two. I've decided to split the system into two parts: a GCC version and a Midchart version. I continue to appreciate any feedback on the system itself or on its legality at the appropriate chart level. Thank you in advance for you comments. In both versions, the 1♣ structure and the 1NT and higher bids will be as above. Below will be the differences with the 1♦, 1♥, and 1♠ openings appropriately. GCC Version 1♦ 10-15, Usually 4+♦ (although may be 4135 or 1435), unbalanced Bidding fairly natural with an inverted 2♦. We also use 2-way nmf after a 1NT rebid. Raise a major almost always on 3 card support. 1♥ 10-15, 5+♥ (4+ opposite PH)-1♠ Natural forcing-1NT Semi-forcing (only pass if 5332 min OR 4=5=2=2 exactly), note also that 3 card limit with <3♣ uses 1NT and 5332 max opens 1NT-2♣ 3+ clubs, either 10-12 with 3♥ OR GF with ♣ OR GF bal (see below)-2♦ 5+ diamonds GF-2♥ 5-9 3-4♥-2♠ 4+♥, LIM+ (see below)-2NT Fit Jump with ♠-3♣/3♦ Fit Jump-3♥ PRE-3♠ LIM splinter (unknown singleton)-3NT Void ♠ LIM splinter-4♣/♦ Void LIM splinter-4♥ To Play 1♥ - 2♣ - ?-2♦ ART min with 5♥ OR max with 6♥ and 4 card side suit OR max with 6 broken ♥-2♥ 6♥ min-2♠ 5♥, 4 card side suit max (2N asks, then HML)-2NT 6♥, 5 card side suit max (3♣ asks, then HML)-3♣/♦ 55 max-3♥ max with 6 solid ♥-3♠ 5♠/6♥ min-3NT 5332 max 1♥ - 2♠ - ?-2NT Any min, then---3♣ ART GF (then steps as below, except showing a min)---3♦ Game try (How bad are you?)---3♥ No game interest opposite a min-3♣ Max, no shortage-3♦/♥/♠ Max, HML shortage-3NT/4♣/♦ Max, HML side suit (KQxxx or better)-4♥ Distributional min (6+♥) 1♠ 10-15, 5+♠ (4+ opposite PH)similar to above, except-2♦ 5+♦ GF, except may also be 3=4=4=2 exactly-2♥ 5+♥ GF-2NT 4+♠, LIM+ (steps similar to above)-3NT LIM splinter (unknown singleton) Midchart Version 1♦ 10-15, usually 4+♦ unbalanced (although may be 4135 or 1435)-1♥/♠ 4+, F1, 6-12 hcp-1NT GF relay-2♣ Natural, nf, ~7-10 hcp-2♦ Inverted, 4+♦, ~9-11 hcp-2♥ 55 majors, invitational, ~8-11 hcp-2♠ 55 blacks, invitational, ~8-11 hcp-2NT Good 10 to poor 12, balanced, may have poor 4 card major-3♣ Invitational Jump Shift-3♦ Inverted-3♥/♠/4♣ PRE-3NT Balanced, To Play 1♦ - 1M - ?-1♠ Natural-1NT Both minors (note b/c responder is limited, no nmf)-2♣ 5♣, 3-4♦-2♦ 6♦-Raise (min, 3+)-2NT 6♦, 3 card support (xxx)-3♦ 6♦, 3 card support (Hxx or better) 1♥ 10-15, 5+♥ (may be 55 majors in 1/2, 4+ opposite PH)-1♠ GF relay-1NT 4+♠, 6-9 hcp-2♣ ART, any INV with <4♥ (as above)-2♦ LIM in ♥ (as above)-2♥ 5-9, 3-4♥-2♠ Unknown Mini-splinter (4+♥, <LIM)-2NT Invitational Jump Shift in ♠ (Fit Jump if PH)-3♣/3♦ Invitational Jump Shift (Fit Jump if PH)-3♥ PRE-3♠ LIM splinter (unknown singleton)-3NT Void ♠ LIM splinter-4♣/♦ Void LIM splinter-4♥ To Play 1♠ 10-15, 5+♠ (denies 5♥ in 1/2, 4+ opposite PH)-1NT GF relay-2♣ ART, any INV with <4♠ (as above)-2♦ 5+♥ (see below)-2♥ LIM in ♠ (as above)-2♠ 5-9, 3-4♠-2NT Unknown Mini-splinter (4+♠, <LIM)-3♣/♦/♥ Invitational Jump Shift (Fit Jump if PH)-3♠ PRE-3NT LIM splinter (unknown singleton)-4♣/♦/♥ Void LIM splinter-4♠ To play 1♠ - 2♦ - ?-2♥ 2-3♥ OR bad spades-2♠ 0-1♥ good spades-2NT 6♠, 3♥-3♣/♦ 55 max-3♥ 5♠, 4♥ min-3♠ max, good spades-3NT Gambling (solid spades)-4♣/♦ Splinter, max-4♥ 5=4=2=2 max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Here is take two. I've decided to split the system into two parts: a GCC version and a Midchart version. I continue to appreciate any feedback on the system itself or on its legality at the appropriate chart level. Thank you in advance for you comments. I think that its a mistake to have two different system variants, especially in Nor-Cal which isn't exactly noted for its wide number of Midchart events... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Why do you call this "gnome club"? This is just regular precision with a souped-up scheme of follow-ups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted January 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Why do you call this "gnome club"? This is just regular precision with a souped-up scheme of follow-ups. I will respectfully disagree, in particular with the midchart version. Just because the openings look like Precision, doesn't mean the system is close enough to be called precision. I even hesitate to tell my opponents it's Precision based and say rather that it's a strong club system. I can imagine when it goes 1♥ - 1♠ (alert GF relay), the opponents will no longer think it's "Just precision". I don't think simply opening bids constitutes a system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 I don't think simply opening bids constitutes a system. I tend to disagree with that. Openings are the base structure of the system. I'd call your system "gnome precision", reflecting both the gnome relay scheme and its precision skeleton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Matt, Ditto. Ditto. Ditto. I do not say "Precision" when I know it's really "4 card major canape transfer strong club". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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