1H-double-redouble-?

[jmc]

I recently held:

 

10832

73

Q532

943

 

My left hand opponent bid 1H and my partner doubled. Right hand opponent now redoubled. I have usually played that I need to bid 1S here to let p know I have some preference. Partner thinks I should have passed because I do not have a “real” preference. This would allow him to bid his lowest playable spot, ie C or D in case we are better there.

 

What style do all of you play in this auction? What does 1S, 2C, 2D, 2S, or higher jumps mean? Does anyone play pass here as wanting to play 1H doubled and redoubled? Would it matter if the opening had been a minor or if opponents were playing 4-card majors?

 

Thanks for any input you have.

 

jmc

[gwnn]

pass is (at least to me) a "scrambling" of some sorts: equal support for at least 2 suits. or a good hand (insofar as one will have a good hand after 3 people have shown values).

[Guest Jlall]

Was going to write a blog post on this once.

 

Pass should be scrambling and always have at least 3 of the higher unbid suit (in this case diamonds). Pass can also be an invitational or better hand type rarely. I think partner with 4 spades should always bid 1S if you pass, even with 41(35) and especially 42(52). Partner should bid 1N with 4-4 in the minors and not 4 spades (also with a very strong balanced hand. He will redouble with the 4-4 minors hand type). With 3154 he should bid 2D, and with 3145 he should bid 1N and then XX. Over that partner will always bid clubs with equal length. 1N over XX is either natural or minors with longer clubs/equal. Advancer XXs with the minor suit hand type. Pass then pull 1S to 1N is minors with longer diamonds.

 

With spades and diamonds advancer can pass, but with spades and clubs advancer must bid 1S with a stiff diamond. With even 4324 though it's usually right to pass and take your chances in 2D opposite 3253, but finding clubs instead of a 4-3 spade fit when you have a fit there.

 

This hand would be a perfect hand type for playing this way. You will always get to your fit, even if it's clubs. Jumps are all preemptive after XX, and a jump to 2N is minors. A cue would show a monster.

[awm]

I think it is fairly standard that a pass of a one-level redouble is the start of a scramble. However, with four spades and the ability to bid spades at the one-level, I think I'd just bid 1♠ with your example hand. The standard meaning is that various jumps are mostly preemptive (i.e. five card suit at the two-level, etc) and that the cuebid (2♥ here) is the main way to show a strong hand (psych-revealing I suppose).

 

However, recently I've noticed a bunch of really top-flight players giving their opponents the opportunity at a huge score passing out a redoubled contract, only to have their opponents rescue them because the pass of redouble was "scramble" (I know I've seen Meckstroth-Rodwell and Versace-Lauria both do this in the last year). So perhaps there is something to be said for passing to suggest defending after all.

[neilkaz]

I play that pass shows no preference and that a bid shows some preference but not values.

 

Here my preference is to tell PD that I have at least 4 ♠ and since should have at least 3♠ to double 1♥ we should remain at the 1 level where hopefully little damage should be done to us (assuming the XX wasn't psyched and shows 10HCP+) If PD somehow has 17 HCP and a very good minor suit and felt he was to good to overcall (both opps must be VERY minimum) he can bid 2m and I'll happily pass.

 

I most definately wouldn't play that pass of a redoubled 5 card major opening shows a desire to defend. I don't play that pass of minor openings show that, but some people do, but in my experience it rarely comes up and the one time it did, the opp's decision was gambling and I made an OT.

 

So I bid 1♠ here happy that we can stay at the 1 level since I have 4 spades.

 

If PD doubled with 3♠ and 5 cards in a minor, perhaps he should have overcalled instead.

 

Just my opinion ... neilkaz ..

[mikeh]

I personally play that the pass of the redouble is penalty. It doesn't arise very often, but it is great when it does, and the loss of not having the scramble is also rare, and the cost usually less than the gain from having the penalty meaning.

 

Obviously we will need long, internally strong trump, but, since most good players play that the redouble tends to deny a fit, that is not as rare as one might think. Doubler leads a trump when possible. Especially when red v white, one can pick up a really nice score when one holds something like QJ097x in the trump suit.

 

Note that these hands usually involve no game for the doubling side, since the opening side usually has the slight majority of the hcp, and 4th seat's tricks are slow and in opener's suit, hence not available on offence. So when the hand arises, you are NOT dealing with a choice between game our way or beating them. It is often partscore our way, sometimes failing, or big score our way, redoubled -1 or 2...

 

Having said all that, the scramble is a more frequent hand type and there is a lot to be said for scramble at mps and penalty at imps.

 

On the given hand, if playing scramble, I agree with Justin's analysis

[barmar]

Mike, does the 0 of trumps actually take a trick? :)

 

I'm curious about the logic of your IMPs vs MP choice. It seems to me that even with that trump stack, how often do you expect to set them more than 1? If they're vulnerable that gets you 200, which is a very nice matchpoint result compared to any partscore you're making, but only 2-3 IMPs.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

I have a preference, spades.

I can play them on the 1 level,

even if that means a 4-3 fit.

 

Clubs and diamonds need to play 2 tricks

better than spades.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[mikeh]

Mike, does the 0 of trumps actually take a trick? :)

 

I'm curious about the logic of your IMPs vs MP choice.  It seems to me that even with that trump stack, how often do you expect to set them more than 1?  If they're vulnerable that gets you 200, which is a very nice matchpoint result compared to any partscore you're making, but only 2-3 IMPs.

the last time I had the auction, we were plus 1000. OK, maybe opener, with A9xxx in trump ought to have pulled :)

[the hog]

1S - I have 4 and i can bid them at the 1 level.

[hatchett]

the last time I had the auction, we were plus 1000. OK, maybe opener, with A9xxx in trump ought to have pulled

 

Isn't this the issue with playing pass as penalty, the vast majority of the time you theoretically have a penalty they can play something else, not least 1NT since they have an opening bid opposite 9HCP?

[csdenmark]

1♥ RDBL is unacceptable contract. That makes game score for 7 tricks.

 

I pass for weak if it is agreed forcing else I need to take action myself.

[helene_t]

I would bid 1♠. Most of the time it doesn't matter: if I pass, partner will bid 1♠ with 4234/4243, with 3244 he will scramble with 1NT and with a five-card minor he will bid that suit.

 

With 4144 he will scramble with 1NT which might lead to 2m doubled when 1♠ would have been better.

 

Then again, with ten hearts opps won't double us in 2m. A better problem would be xxx-xxxxx-xx-xxx. With that hand it's important to bid 1♠.

[whereagles]

I personally play that the pass of the redouble is penalty. It doesn't arise very often, but it is great when it does

There's another advantage in playing this way: systematics. If you play

 

a.

(1x) dbl (rdbl) pass

 

as penalty, then it's easier to remember that

 

b.

(1x) pass (pass) dbl

(rdbl) pass

 

is also penalty.

 

If one is to play sequence a. in a different way to sequence b, one'd have more scope to misunderstandings.

[csdenmark]

I personally play that the pass of the redouble is penalty. It doesn't arise very often, but it is great when it does

There's another advantage in playing this way: systematics. If you play

 

a.

(1x) dbl (rdbl) pass

 

as penalty, then it's easier to remember that

 

b.

(1x) pass (pass) dbl

(rdbl) pass

 

is also penalty.

 

If one is to play sequence a. in a different way to sequence b, one'd have more scope to misunderstandings.

I am not sure I am good enough in english language here but for me they are completely different.

 

A RDBL is support for opening - asking for opps. to disclose their feature or disaster

 

B RDBL is SOS takeout demand for partner

[SoTired]

1S... I only pass when weak and don't have a bid in the cheapest suit. I don't want partner to scramble over our best fit.

So 1H X XX p denies 4♠ and 1S X XX p denies 4♣

[csdenmark]

1S... I only pass when weak and don't have a bid in the cheapest suit. I don't want partner to scramble over our best fit.

So 1H X XX p denies 4♠ and 1S X XX p denies 4♣

No you dont. You pass if you are strong and think 2♥RDBL is our best spot.

 

1♠ is cheapest bid - Herbert Negative.

 

Holding something you bid something else than 1♠. If you want to inform partner of 4card spade suit and 6-7HcP you bid 2♠.