Relay after new minor forcing

[soldatoJ]

1C-1S

1N-2D(new minor forcing)

2S-2N

 

This 2NT must be forcing, I think it is no need to explain.

Can I make this bid to be a relay bid? If so, can anyone give me some suggestion?

[Yzerman]

I am a propenent of two way checkback (especially in tandem with weak NT), but I will touch upon that in a minute.  To answer your question, I have a question;

 

a) If use 2N as relay, then how are you going to handle the following invitational hands;

 

1) 54xx

2) 5xxx

 

As with all treatments/conventions anytime you propose a new way of doing things you have to consider the consequence on other types of hands that you are affecting.  If you wish to propose 2NT as a relay, you must account for the hand types I described which may mean altering a whole cascade of bids (which may not be practical - I have a wealth of experience in this from a wealth of system engineering).

 

Given my explanation I do not think the reward of playing 2NT in this auction as a relay compensates for the risk of losing other conventional meaning.

 

Back to 2 way checkback, my regular partner and I play two way checkback but have tediously arranged some agreements that I can offer.  On this very auction 2D becomes unconditional game force and 2N is an asking relay.  I will try and keep this is as short as possible, but their might be something in here of value.

 

The auction you described, we play 2D as game force checkback and 2NT as an asking relay for one of two types of auctions (a) probe for best contract or (:) slam try.  Please keep in mind we also play weak NT (11-14).

 

In my regular partnership, we play 1C and rebid of 1NT tends to deny 4 diamonds unless 2245 with much better clubs than diamonds.  So upon bidding 2D (gf checkback) and opener bids 2S (3 spades) the 4522 hand is hence no longer a hand pattern.  Hence 2N ask 2 questions, what is your pattern and what is your strength.  Here are the rebids by opener;

 

3C = 3xx5

3D = 3334 max

3H = 3433 or 3424 minimum

3S = 3433 max

3N = 3334 min

 

(Note - with 3424 max we agree to bid hearts first then raise spades)

 

This works very nice for us for both option (a) probing for best contract and (B) slam bidding.  This is especially effective for strong NT's (imho) where the strong NT will get to describe the bulk of their 15-17 along with pattern (you can argue merits of more/less effective with weak NT elsewhere, but I have found that you naturally have more to describe in a strong NT hand type than the typicall 11-14 hence this tool is invaluable).

 

I will not go into anymore of this for now unless somebody requests to continue conversation or discuss what the follow ups are for 1D openers however perhaps you could use some of this in your quest for finding a suitable relay for regular nmf auctions.

[soldatoJ]

2NT= forcing

since you must have 5 times spade to use new minor

focing if you can't bid a 3 minor,  then this 2NT can

be waiting, ask partner to cue bid to see if partner

have good cards

 

you may think that it is balance hand invite to 3NT

then why not bid 2NT directly?

you may think that this tell partner that we have

spade fit and wanna try 3NT

But, I think that when you locate the spade fit,

why not bid 3NT directly?

(fit also need invite??)

 

To invite with 5 times Major, can bid 3Major directly after partner's 2M

 

If you really want to find fit and invite, then

if there is no fit, you still have to bid 2NT,

then partner may still go to 3NT

(even he don't go, 2NT must die, since your hand is

worth for invite only when you have fit, but not you

don't have fit, and you reach 2NT, why not pass 1NT??)

 

1m-1M

1N-2om

2M-2N <- J's relay

(2M mean 3 card, must not have, 4 times hearts, may have 5 times bad minors)

 

3C= (23)(35)

3D= (33)(25)

3H= (23)(44)

3S= (13)(45)

3N= 33(34)

 

if 2M can have 4 times hearts ->

3C= (23)(35)

3D= (33)(25)

3H= (23)(44) of (43)(24) -> 3S relay, 3N = 44minor, 4C=4 card Hearts

3S= (13)(45)

3N= 33(34)

[soldatoJ]

I would like to use this in any NT hand

1. Variable NT

2. Prepare 1C/1D NT

 

1+2. is

open 1C:

a) at least 2 card 12-14(VUL) or 15-17(non-VUL) Balance hand

:) at least 3 card 12-21 unBalance hand

c) at least 3 card 20-21 Balance hand

 

open 1D:

a) at least 2 card 18-19(non-VUL) Balance hand

B) at least 3 card 12-21 unBalance hand

c) at least 3 card 20-21 Balance hand

[inquiry]

Two way checkback: I use it with my regular partners, but different partners treat it differently on some specific auction types.

 

1c-1h-1n.... 2c and 2d invite and game force, ok no problem

 

1c-1h-1s-2d .... normal 4th suit forcing (two way off) with one, but two way still on with another (and 2C would be the invitational bid bid)...

 

1c-1h-2c-2d ..... how do you play this? nonforcing red two suiter, or a new minor forcing? I play it one way with one partner and another way with others. If I always had my way, this would be treated as nmf.    

 

Which brings us to......

 

1c-1d-1x-2C.... what is this? I like something called levy 2Diamonds (1c-2d) to show 6+ diamonds, or 5+ diamonds and 4 clubs. Rebids by opener will clarify his point count, number of clubs and/or his tolerance for diamonds. So 1c-1d-1x-2C is nonforcing if playing levy two diamonds. Rather than try to explain it, I found this description of Steven Levy's excellent convention on this website  http://www.bridgeguys.com/LGlossary/StephenLevy2.html which btw, has an excellent discussion of two way checkback and 1D-3C auctions (and many others). Also change the 2 in the address to 1 to read other of Steven's ideas.

[mishovnbg]

Two way check back have great advantage dont give opp information that p may be no need. But somebody think about what disadvantage it have? If u reach game after 2CL may be dangerous, because opp know u limit of HCP and with bad break of suits u can receive "nice" dbl. My point of view is: less info to opp about HCP is better then less info about distribution. So 1 way check back for me is better. New minor forcing "eat" 1 level if it is 2DI, so simple 2CL check back stayman is best. It is better also when 1NT rebid was with singleton/void in responder suit.