csdenmark Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 [hv=d=n&v=n&s=skj85hqj942dq7cj5]133|100|[/hv] The auction goes in this way: 1♣ - 1♠(ALERT) - ???? Your partner South opens 1♣(standard opening)Opps overcalls 1♠ which is alerted as a canape' overcall(2-4♠, second best suit, Brown-sticker feature) What is your call as North? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 I try 1NT. 2!h would be an overbid, and dbl might be confusing. Besides, I have soft values and all suits seem to be more or less guarded. If partner raises to three, LHO has to guess his partner's suit and might guess wrong. So missing a hearts fit rates to be not so bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 2 ♦ as a transfer to hearts, showing 5 Hearts would be my choice, if I have this agreement and a good agreement about the later bidding.Else, I would bid a simple 2 Heart and not even care whether this is forcing or not.I would simply treat this as a 11 HCP hand as all my values besides the Queen of Diamond are surely working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotShot Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Holding 5♥ and a good ♠ stop are the main features of my hand.Possible bids are 1NT and 2♥. 1NT is defensive and i think holding the majority of HCP we should not give in, too early. So i prefer 2♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 2H, though 1NT is a reasonable alternative. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 1NT Shows the stopper, just becauseit maybe a Canape Overcall, it doesnot mean, he has two suits. The alternative would be a neg. X,I dont like the suit quality / the shapeto make a 2H bid. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csdenmark Posted January 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 1NT Shows the stopper, just becauseit maybe a Canape Overcall, it doesnot mean, he has two suits. The alternative would be a neg. X,I dont like the suit quality / the shapeto make a 2H bid. With kind regardsMarloweCorrect it does not necessarily mean 2 suits. Overcall suit is 2nd best suit(2-4 cards). The options for distribution are 4♥+4♠ or 5+♣♦♥ with a possible side feature in ♠. As is normal for canape' bidding it is forcing. After intervention from the opener side it is certainly no longer forcing but natural. This therefore means pass will be an option and DBL responsive. For your information the italian top pair Bocchi/Duboin employed canape' overcalls over natural 1♣♦ openings until 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Couple comments about canape overcalls: Canape overcalls can be a royal pain in the butt to defend against because a lot of the standard treatments don't work all that well. Negative doubles don't make much sense: In this case, a negative double should show Hearts and Diamonds. However, the overcaller will typically hold 5+ cards in one of these two suits. A "pure" negative double isn't going to come up much. In a similar fashion, a natural 1NT advance is a lot more problematic because you don't know which suit you want to stop. The 1♠ could be based on a three card fragment, so using a 1NT advance to announce a Spade stopper probably is suboptimal. Personally, I'd like to have some kind of transfer scheme available to me 1NT = Clubs2♣ = Diamonds2♦ = Hearts2♥ = Spades And use double to show values without a clear direction Absent this special agreement, I'm bidding 1NT, but only because I have the Qx of Diamonds and might be able to protect this on opening lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 double. I firmly believe that bidding 1N with this hand type is not right. You can always back into NT after finding a heart fit, but you'll never back into hearts after bidding NT. Maybe at MP 1N has something going for it since I may end up in 2D after a X when 1N is superior, but at imps where it's mainly about finding the right game I like double. If partner is 1-4 in the majors I definitely want to be playing hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted January 1, 2007 Report Share Posted January 1, 2007 Canape overcalls over 1C/D work very well, because as has been pointed out, they largely nullify the value of Sputnik doubles - see Richard's post above. They also add a surprise value to those who are too lazy to have meta agreements.We used to play that a X showed a good 4 card holding in the suit bid, and bids were puppets to the next suit up - Rubensohl style. I spent quite some time playing these and also discussed them on rgb and per email with some members of the Dutch National team. Claus has actually not got it 100% correct - the canape overcall is NOT forcing. eg 1C (1S) PHolding xxxxx ? ? ?and a weak hand you pass - this is clear cut. With a good hand you frequently raise the overcaller's canape suit, as most of the time the overcaller will have 3 card support - see below. Also the overcalled suit is usually 3 cards. It is only a 2 card suit when you have a holding of 4 in the opps suit eg withAKxxx Kx xx xxxx you would overcall on opening bid of 1C with 1H - the better of the canape suits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Being brown sticker, shouldn't opps provide you with a defense to the overcall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Being brown sticker, shouldn't opps provide you with a defense to the overcall? Depends where you play Whereagles. Also I think you know my views on providing defences.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 I have 10 HCP and 5♥ so would bid 2♥ vs a standard 1♠ O/C so I'll do it here and hope the overcallers main suit isn't ♥ .. neilkaz .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 So Neil, how do you find your 4-4 S fit - if you have one?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csdenmark Posted January 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Being brown sticker, shouldn't opps provide you with a defense to the overcall?I really dont know. I think it will be wise to pass the overcall and wait for the feature to be disclosed. Then you via Lebensohl will have excellent options for continue - even better than those you had without interference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Being brown sticker, shouldn't opps provide you with a defense to the overcall?I really dont know. I think it will be wise to pass the overcall and wait for the feature to be disclosed. Then you via Lebensohl will have excellent options for continue - even better than those you had without interference. Well, the point is you probably should have a prepared defense to this sort of overcall. Be it done by you or by opps :) Without any agreements I suppose I'd dbl to show spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 I think it will be wise to pass the overcall and wait for the feature to be disclosed. Then you via Lebensohl will have excellent options for continue - even better than those you had without interference. I don't think so. If LHO bids 3♦ (P/C) and RHO raises to 4♦ (barage) we're hardly better placed than if I'd made some descriptive bid now, let alone better than without intervention. Even if LHO passes, we have less bidding space than without the intervention, and unlike a natual 1♠ overcall, the canape overcall does not give us much useful in exchange for the lost bidding space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Pass, the auction isn't over and I want to know what suit his main suit is. I don't think LHO has a ♠ fit, so I'll get my chance later. If I double later, partner will know I have the Majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 To the passers - I would find it very amusing if the auction went "All Pass", as it certainly can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 To the passers - I would find it very amusing if the auction went "All Pass", as it certainly can do. Yep, I agree with that. RHO hasn't shown as much length as usual so partner might well have some length and pass it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 So Neil, how do you find your 4-4 S fit - if you have one?? Your point is valid..so am I supposed to double here ? What is the best method vs these canape O/C's ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 They are not easy to combat which is why we adopted the tactics we did. A X showed a 4 card holding, (or a bad 5 card holding), in the suit bid - also possibly canape. With a longer suit we used Rubensohl. Yes it is possible, but significantly more unlikely, that our 5 card suit was their real suit. On this hand we would have X to show 4S. Then after the likely 2D bid by overcaller, if partner passed to show no S fit, we would have bid H. This method is not foolproof, but it worked most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 2♥, wtp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csdenmark Posted January 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 To the passers - I would find it very amusing if the auction went "All Pass", as it certainly can do.Certainly not. If overcallers partner passes holding a weak 6+♠ then opener just need to take action. I would recommend Lebensohl. I really think the wise bid is pass. Overcaller side will never be able to pass the hand out but you are in great danger of missing your game - bidding too quickly in darkness. As the initially responses point to - forcing or not? This is the real advantage of canape' overcalls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 Sorry Claus, but your argument is totally illogical and meaningless. If you are expecting opener to always take action after 1X (1Y) P (P), then 4th hand has the perfect opportunity to take the opener to the cleaners. Seriously, what on earth is the poor guy supposed to do onxxx xxx xxx xxxx after a 1C opening and a canape 1S overcall? You suggest Leb. Leb for what?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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