Six shots or only five. Do you feel lucky?

[jdeegan]

[hv=d=e&v=n&s=skq98762h7652dcak]133|100|Scoring: IMP

1♣-1♠-Dbl-2♠

3♦-4♠-5♦-P

P-???[/hv]

:lol: Now what?

[pbleighton]

Pass.

 

Peter

[inquiry]

We bid 4♠ vul versus non-vul, so that was to make. I play partners pass here over 5♦ as forcing, and very little about my hand suggest defending. If partners hand is not defensive either, then bidding on seems right. My major concern, however, is my four hearts. Whatever partner holds in hearts, EAST is sitting behnind him, and I can not imagine a side suit where I can throw away losers from either hand. So, I will bid only 5♠ and hope we don't have three heart losers. Partner for his 2♠ raise can not ahve AK of hearts and Ace of spades, so surely we will have at least two losers.

[Guest Jlall]

ugh...not more forcing pass mania :P This auction would be the main reason I don't subscribe to the vul vs non vul theory. I would bid 4S on many shapely hands with just a hope to make or preempt the opponents and would often want to be able to pass it out after that.

 

As for what to do...I really don't know. It could be a double game swing so I'm itching to bid but my AK of clubs are really asking me to defend. Bleh, I guess I'll take the push since too many hands are makers for us.

[whereagles]

I'm gonna take the push to 5♠. Maybe it makes, maybe opps had 5♦, maybe they bid 6♦ and I cash AK♣... who knows? :P

[mike777]

Dealer: East Vul: N/S Scoring: IMP

♠ KQ98762 ♥ 7652 ♦ [space] ♣ AK

1♣-1♠-Dbl-2♠ 3♦-4♠-5♦-P P-???

:P Now what?

Once again bidding 4spades rather than one spade with 7-4 per Richard and giving up on any slam after the opp open at the one level ala Bergen.

[mikeh]

For those who want to say that this is a forcing pass, let me commend to you a general and useful principle.

 

Note that overcaller had lots of room over 3♦.

 

3♥ would be a game try, and would not create any sort of force.

 

But we have 3 bids at the 4-level which we can use to create a force: we can bid 4 of any suit below 4♠: such calls commit us to game and involve partner. When we choose NOT to involve partner, as by jumping to 4♠, we have assumed captaincy... partner is NOT to double or bid 5♠ without unusual values. Indeed, double would usually be based on sure trump tricks or unexpected trump length and bidding would be very weird, since the 4♠ bidder may be intending to hammer whatever the opps bid.

 

With the given hand, if I wanted to establish a force, I would have bid 4♣.

 

As it is, I pass. We have a good chance of going plus and little chance of making 5♠... I have too many ♥ losers, and just a hint of too much defence to opt to try for 850.

 

BTW, I would have overcalled 4♠ not 1. And this is the factor that makes me choose the pass now: I'm going to stay consistent with my predecessor's initial valuation.

[Halo]

5S

 

If opponents get them right, and I don't, its well done to them at the end of the match.

[jdeegan]

<_< Like most of the responders, I thought 5♠ was the percentage call. It turned out that the number of shots fired was, in fact, five not six. I made my move, and Dirty Harry blew me away.

[hv=d=e&v=n&n=sj102h1083da109cq1093&s=skq98763h7652dcak]133|200|Scoring: IMP

1♣-1♠-Dbl-2♠

3♦-4♠-5♦-P

P-5♠-Dbl-P

P-P[/hv]

All this hand proves is that sometimes the worse case scenario does arise. The opponents can't even make 5♦ losing two ♣ and a ♦. I have a hard time believing that partner should have doubled 5♦ in front of me.

[kenrexford]

For those who want to say that this is a forcing pass, let me commend to you a general and useful principle.

 

Note that overcaller had lots of room over 3♦.

 

3♥ would be a game try, and would not create any sort of force.

 

But we have 3 bids at the 4-level which we can use to create a force: we can bid 4 of any suit below 4♠: such calls commit us to game and involve partner. When we choose NOT to involve partner, as by jumping to 4♠, we have assumed captaincy... partner is NOT to double or bid 5♠ without unusual values. Indeed, double would usually be based on sure trump tricks or unexpected trump length and bidding would be very weird, since the 4♠ bidder may be intending to hammer whatever the opps bid.

 

With the given hand, if I wanted to establish a force, I would have bid 4♣.

 

As it is, I pass. We have a good chance of going plus and little chance of making 5♠... I have too many ♥ losers, and just a hint of too much defence to opt to try for 850.

 

BTW, I would have overcalled 4♠ not 1. And this is the factor that makes me choose the pass now: I'm going to stay consistent with my predecessor's initial valuation.

I largely agree with this opinion, although I would word it slightly differently. To me, a 4♣ call claims "ownership" of the four-level. 4♠, in contrast, makes no such claims.

 

With this holding, especially with A-K tight in RHO's opened suit, I want to claim ownership of the four-level, that partner, with the Ace of diamonds in his hand, the club Queen, no shortness, and contextually short and poor spades, will double.

[Winstonm]

Some of the problem may lie in the bidding - I see no compelling reason to raise the spade overcall with only 3 so-so spades, no shape, and doubtful club values after the negative double.