Minor Suit asking after Stayman

[Trpltrbl]

Is anybody interested in Minorsuitasking after 1NT- 2 CL- 2 D ? You will be losing out on garbage stayman but I find it a really neat and very handy convention. Will get y to very good spots, especially slams and 5 of a minor suit contracts. ;D

[Trpltrbl]

It is fairly simple, but can work great. I will put it up.

1 NT- 2Cl

2 D - 2 SP= Balanced GF hand

 

2 NT 3-3-4-3 or 3-3-3-4

3 CL 5+ Clubs

3 D 5+ Diamonds

3 H 3-2-4-4

3 SP 2-3-4-4

3 NT 2-2-4-5 or 2-2-5-4

 

Let me know if y like it, or if y have some ideas ;D

[lenze]

In case you are interested, this is what i have played for over 20 years

 

After 1 NT Opening

 

2C = Stayman or slam try in Diamonds

Opener bids:

·  2D = Denies 4 Hearts. May have four Spades

·  2H = 4+ Hearts. Denies 4 Spades

·  2S = Both majors

·  2NT = No major, 2 Diamonds and 5 + Clubs(minimum)

·  3C = No major, 2 Diamonds and 5 + Clubs (maximum)

Responder’s re-bids:

·  After 2 D(Denies 4 Hearts)

·  2 H asks for 4 card Spade suit

·  2 S = 4+Spades

·  After 2S , 3 of a minor suit = 4+ and also 4 Spades(slam try), 3 Hearts = slam try in Spades with undisclosed singleton. (Opener bids 3 NT to ask), 3 S is invitational to game, 4 C = RCK in Spades

·  2 NT=Minimum w/o Spades

·  After 2NT, 3 minor is natural 4+ (slam interest)

·  3C=maximum with 5+Clubs

·  3D=maximum with 5+Diamonds

·  3H=maximum with both minors

·  3S=maximum with Spades (probably 5)

·  3NT=maximum and 3-3-3-4 or 3-3-4-3

·  2 S = slam interest in Diamonds

·  Opener bids

·  2NT = Strong interest in Diamond slam(Hxxx or better)

·  3C = Hxx or xxxx in Diamonds

·  3D = Hx or xxx in Diamonds

·  3H= maximum with both minors

·  3S = 5 card suit and no Diamond interest (xx)

·  3NT = Balanced hand, no interest (xx)

·  2 NT = invitation to 3 NT

·  3 C = 4+ Clubs with 4 Hearts (slam interest)

·  3 D = 4 + Diamonds with 4 Hearts ( slam interest)

·  3 H = 4 Hearts and 5 Spades (Smolen)

·  3 S = 4 Spades and 5 Hearts (Smolen)

·  3 NT = to play

·  After 2 H( 4+ Hearts, denies 4 Spades)

·  2 S = slam interest in Diamonds

·  Opener bids

·  2NT = Strong interest in Diamond slam(Hxxx or better)

·  3C = Hxx or xxxx in Diamonds

·  3D = Hx or xxx in Diamonds

·  3H= 5 card suit and no Diamond interest (xx)

·  3S = maximum with both minors

·  3NT = Balanced hand, no interest (xx)

·  2 NT = invitational to 3 NT

·  3 C = 4+ Clubs and 4 Spades

·  3 D = 4 + Diamonds and 4 Spades

·  3 H = invitational raise

·  3 S = 4 Hearts and an undisclosed singleton with slam interest (Opener bids 3 NT to ask for singleton.)

·  3 NT = to play

·  4 C = RKC for Hearts

 

 

·  After 2 S (Both majors)

·  2 NT = invitational to 3 NT( no major)

·  3 C = slam try in Diamonds (usually 6+ Diamonds)

·  3 D = relay to 3 Hearts ( 4 C is then RKC Hearts)

·  3 H = relay to 3 Spades ( 4 C is then RKC Spades)

·  3 NT = to play (probably a 5 card Diamond suit)

 

 

·  After 2 NT( No major, only 2 Diamonds, 5+Clubs and minimum)

·  3 C = slam try in Clubs

·  3 D = slam interest in Diamonds

·  3 H = 4 Hearts and 5 Spades (Smolen)

·  3 S = 4 Spades and 5 Hearts (Smolen)

·  3 NT = to play

 

·  After 3 C(No major, only 2 Diamonds, 5+ Clubs and maximum)

·  3 D = slam try in Diamonds

·  3 H = 4 Hearts and 5 Spades (Smolen)

·  3 S = 4 Spades and 5 Hearts (Smolen)

·  3 NT = to play

·  4 C = slam try in Clubs

 

After 1 NT Opening

·  2 D = transfer to Hearts, or slam try in Clubs

·  Opener always accepts the transfer with 2 Hs

·  After the 2 H bid, responder bids

·  2 S = forget Hearts, slam try in Clubs

·  Opener rebids

·  2 NT = Good Club support(Hxxx or better)

·  3 C = Fair Club support (Hxx or xxxx)

·  3 D = Hx or xxx in Clubs

·  3 H = 5 card suit, no Club interest (xx)  

·  3 S = 5 card suit, no Club interest (xx)

·  3 NT = Balanced hand, no slam interest (xx)

·  2 NT = 5 Hearts, invitational to game

·  3 C = 5 Hearts and 4+ Clubs (mild slam interest)

·  3 D = 5 Hearts and 4+ Diamonds( mild slam interest)

·  3 H = 6+ Hearts and invites game

·  3 S = 6+ Hearts and an undisclosed singleton/void(3NT by opener asks)

·  3 NT = to play

·  4 C = RKC in Hearts

 

NOTE: Any bid but 2 Spades promises 5+ Hearts

 

Other Bids after 1 NT Openings

·  2 H = Transfer to Spades

·  2 S = Minor suit stayman (or Diamond bust)

·  2 NT = Relay to 3 Clubs ( Club bust or 4441 hand)

·  3 Minor invites 3 NT

·  3 Major = Splinter with 3 cards in other major

·  4 C = Straight Gerber

·  4 D & 4 H = Texas transfer

[Trpltrbl]

;D Wow that sure is long but looks very nice. Does it work very well in the real bridge World ? Or do mistakes happens because it is so long ? And people forget? Unless y play that with same pd for long time, but is ure looks good ;) I already printed it out. Thx for r response 8)

[hrothgar]

At some point in time it gets becomes more practical to adopt a full blown relay structure over 1NT openings. Here is a fairly simply structure that utilitzed transfer based principles and is fairly symmetric in nature.

 

WHile the structure looks complex, there is actually a very simple pattern underlying the entire structure.

The NT opener can only have one of three possible shapes (4432, 5332, 4333)

 

After a 1NT opening, 2C = relay and then

 

2D = 4+ Hearts

2H = Relay

2S = 4432 with Hearts and Spades

2N = relay

3C = 4423 shape

3D = 4432 shape

2N = 5332 with 5 Hearts

3C = Relay

3D = 2533 shape

3H = 3523 shape

3S = 3532 shape

3C = 4432 with Hearts and Diamonds

3D = Relay

3H = 4243 shape

3S = 4342 shape

3D = 2434 shape

3H = 3424 shape

2H = 4+ Spades

2S = Relay

2N = 5332 with 5 spades

3C = Relay

3D = 5233 shape

3H = 5323 shape

3S = 5332 shape

3C = 4432 with Spades and Diamonds

3D = Relay

3H = 4243 shape

3S = 4342 shape

3D = 4234 shape

3H = 4324 shape

2S = Any 4333

2N = Relay

3C = 4333 shape

3D = 3433 shape

3H = 3343 shape

3S = 3334 shape

2N = 5332 shape with 5 Diamonds

3C = Relay

3D = 2353 shape

3H = 3252 shape

3S = 3352 shape

3C = 4432 with Clubs and Diamonds

3D = Relay

3H = 2344 shape

3S = 3244 shape

3D = 2335 shape

3H = 3235 shape

3S = 3325 shape

[Trpltrbl]

THX, that sure seems like a fairly simple but good system. And y r rite, there is a structure to it. Will have a deeper look at it.

 

Thx Mike ;D

[Free]

I play some sort of extended stayman where I can ask the entire shape of opener. I still have garbage stayman, but can't show preference for spades. This is how I bid after 1NT-2C-2D-?:

 

2H = garbage stayman

2S = relay, asks more information

2NT = 5 card C or 3334

3C = relay

3D = 3334 distribution

3H = relay

3S = 3-3-3-4

3NT = 3-3-4-3

3H = 3-3-2-5

3S = 3-2-3-5

3NT = 2-3-3-5

3C = 5 card D

3D = relay

3H = 3-3-5-2

3S = 3-2-5-3

3NT = 2-3-5-3

3D = 4-4 minor

3H = relay

3S = 3-2-4-4

3NT = 2-3-4-4

3H = 6 card minor

3S = agree to play in the minor, trf it

3NT = 6 card C

4C = RKC C

4C = 6 card D

4D = RKC D

3S = 5C-4D

3NT = 5D-4C

3M = Smolen

 

I think this way is better than yours Trpltrbl, but it's also more complicated. I haven't had any problems with it, it still contains weak stayman and can ask the entire shape (including 6 card or 5-4 minor, but that's rare). It's part of an entire relay structure: after 2H response of opener - shows 4+H - 2S is also relay to ask shape and after 2S responce - shows exactly 4S - 3C is also such a relay.

 

Free

[Trpltrbl]

I play some sort of extended stayman where I can ask the entire shape of opener. I still have garbage stayman, but can't show preference for spades. This is how I bid after 1NT-2C-2D-?:

 

2H = garbage stayman

2S = relay, asks more information

2NT = 5 card C or 3334

3C = relay

3D = 3334 distribution

3H = relay

3S = 3-3-3-4

3NT = 3-3-4-3

3H = 3-3-2-5

3S = 3-2-3-5

3NT = 2-3-3-5

3C = 5 card D

3D = relay

3H = 3-3-5-2

3S = 3-2-5-3

3NT = 2-3-5-3

3D = 4-4 minor

3H = relay

3S = 3-2-4-4

3NT = 2-3-4-4

3H = 6 card minor

3S = agree to play in the minor, trf it

3NT = 6 card C

4C = RKC C

4C = 6 card D

4D = RKC D

3S = 5C-4D

3NT = 5D-4C

3M = Smolen

 

I think this way is better than yours Trpltrbl, but it's also more complicated. I haven't had any problems with it, it still contains weak stayman and can ask the entire shape (including 6 card or 5-4 minor, but that's rare). It's part of an entire relay structure: after 2H response of opener - shows 4+H - 2S is also relay to ask shape and after 2S responce - shows exactly 4S - 3C is also such a relay.

 

Free

It does look better but definately more complicated, I like to keep it simple. Less to forget. I mean if I find the rite pd willing to put same in Bridge as me I will probably go to system like Meckwell or Keylime but for rite now I just make my pd's happy with simple systems :)

 

Mike ;D

[flytoox]

It is fairly simple, but can work great. I will put it up.

1 NT- 2Cl

2 D - 2 SP= Balanced GF hand

 

Let me know if y like it, or if y have some ideas ;D

Mike, how to handle 5s4h invitational hand? if 2c-2d-2s show balanced gf hand? perhaps better to list ur whole nt structure b4 i evaluate this:)

fly

[Trpltrbl]

It is fairly simple, but can work great. I will put it up.

1 NT- 2Cl

2 D  - 2 SP= Balanced GF hand

 

Let me know if y like it, or if y have some ideas  ;D

Mike, how to handle 5s4h invitational hand? if 2c-2d-2s show balanced gf hand? perhaps better to list ur whole nt structure b4 i evaluate this:)

fly

I use Smolen for 5-4 hands in majors. And I don't open 1 NT with 5-4 in majors.

I use my 3 level responses to 1 NT as follows

3http://mnet.bg/~mfn/c.gif= Puppetstayman

3http://mnet.bg/~mfn/d.gif= 5-5 in Minors Invitational

3http://mnet.bg/~mfn/h.gif= 5-5 in Majors Invitational

3http://mnet.bg/~mfn/s.gif= 5-5 in Majors Slamforcing, even though I have been playing with this to be a Transfer to 3 NT to show a singlesuited slamtry in a specific minor.

Which will leave my regular Transfer to minors for only weak or invitational hands.

And all this is based on opening a 15-17 NT.

I also play 10-12 NT NV and 12-14 nt VUL.

I still play Smolen, Stayman, 4 suit Transfers and my 3 level responses are all GF and either 4-4-4-1 with the suit you bid being the singleton or 1-3-5-4 with the suit being bid showing singleton in Major and 5-4 in minors. As you can tell this is mostly set up for IMP's were the occasional extra 30 or 60 not going to cost you the match :D

 

Mike :D

[flytoox]

It is fairly simple, but can work great. I will put it up.

1 NT- 2Cl

2 D  - 2 SP= Balanced GF hand

 

Let me know if y like it, or if y have some ideas  ;D

Mike, how to handle 5s4h invitational hand? if 2c-2d-2s show balanced gf hand? perhaps better to list ur whole nt structure b4 i evaluate this:)

fly

I use Smolen for 5-4 hands in majors. And I don't open 1 NT with 5-4 in majors.

I use my 3 level responses to 1 NT as follows

3http://mnet.bg/~mfn/c.gif= Puppetstayman

3http://mnet.bg/~mfn/d.gif= 5-5 in Minors Invitational

3http://mnet.bg/~mfn/h.gif= 5-5 in Majors Invitational

3http://mnet.bg/~mfn/s.gif= 5-5 in Majors Slamforcing, even though I have been playing with this to be a Transfer to 3 NT to show a singlesuited slamtry in a specific minor.

Which will leave my regular Transfer to minors for only weak or invitational hands.

And all this is based on opening a 15-17 NT.

I also play 10-12 NT NV and 12-14 nt VUL.

I still play Smolen, Stayman, 4 suit Transfers and my 3 level responses are all GF and either 4-4-4-1 with the suit you bid being the singleton or 1-3-5-4 with the suit being bid showing singleton in Major and 5-4 in minors. As you can tell this is mostly set up for IMP's were the occasional extra 30 or 60 not going to cost you the match ;)

 

Mike B)

Perhaps I didnt make it clear. I understand you play smolen for game force with 54 major. I mean how responder hanlde 5s4h with invitational strength. For example, with

S: KJXXX

H: AJXX

D: XX

C: XX

PD OPEN 1N, how to show this hand to pd?

 

fly

[Free]

1NT - 2H

2S - 3H

...

 

Btw, this isn't an invitational hand imo.

[Trpltrbl]

1NT - 2H

2S - 3H

...

 

Btw, this isn't an invitational hand imo.

I agree, didn't see the problem since with smolen and my 5-5 responses this bidding shows 5-4, but I do play it as GF, but am giving pd a change to go to 3 NT or 3http://mnet.bg/~mfn/s.gif or possibly game in major.

 

Mike :P