more bidding over preempts

[jillybean]

[hv=d=w&v=n&n=saq3hkjt64dq973c4&s=sk8752ha95dakjt5c]133|200|Scoring: MP

(3♣) X {5♣) 5♠[/hv]

 

I havent got this chapter in the book yet :o - how would you bid it?

[Guest Jlall]

South has a great hand opposite a 3 level takeout double of clubs. I would bid 6C with the south hand...after that it's hard to be objective.

[inquiry]

south simply has to force to slam, and he is not even certain which slam might be best. But look at that hand. First and second round control in two suits, first round control in a thrid, and King-fifth in the other where partner is presumed to have support. Add to that, a powerful 5-5 distribution and a great five card diamond suit. It is simply not possible for south to bid "only" 5♠ here. He must force to slam, by bidding 5NT or 6♣ to involve his partner, maybe 6D or 6H is better than 6S... but i doubt i would play 6H... the problem is nhow to avoid bidding 7.

[the hog]

If my pd doubled, I would actually bid 7C. I couldn't contain myself - seriously!

[hotShot]

A dbl on 3♣ shows at least opening strength and shortage in ♣. So South can expect North to have no wasted points in ♣.

♠AQ(J) ♥KQ(J) ♦Q Are the relevant cards missing and thats just 13(15) HCP.

So if North indeed does not have wasted ♣ values, he holds 12 + of the 13 missing relevant points. So any bid less than 7 is to weak, with wasted ♣ values 6 is save to bid

6♣ (if we fear partner has wasted values in ♣) or 7♣ are a very good plan to investigate the fit. If North bids ♥ we may need to correct it to ♠.

[jillybean]

Thanks, very clear now - hopefuly someday I will learn to think before I bid :rolleyes:

[neilkaz]

6♣ for me with a void to force to whatever slam you end up playing. This looks likely to be a 30 HCP deck and you hold mostly all 30 between the two of you.

 

I'll ask the experts here to elaborate on differences between 5NT and 6♣ here since obviously this sequence is not uncommon at this vul.

 

.. neilkaz ..

[Finch]

The problem with these sequences is that they are all very slightly different.

On this particular sequence: 3C x 5C I would play that

 

- 6C shows first round club control and is a grand slam try, non-specific about suit (usually a 2- or 3- suiter). As the doubler I would bid 6D - my lowest playable suit - rather than my longer suit.

 

- 5NT says you want to play a small slam somewhere, but shows less interest in a grand and denies first round club control.

 

(There are alternative approaches here to define responder's suit(s) more carefully. Various schemes I can think of are that 5NT shows a slam drive and asks for a first round club control; or 5NT shows diamonds & a major, 6C shows the majors; or... )

[pclayton]

Greetings from Maui.

 

Frances interpretation of 5N / 6C is what I would expect to be standard, although I think its inconsistent for 5N to only be interested in 6 and categorically deny a club control.

 

I think its more likely that we are making 15 or 16 tricks than 12 on this deal, but we should also expect some ugly suit split. Would 4-0 spades surprise you? Still, my approach to this hand is to invite grand and subside over 6 D / 6S. WE are at adverse, right? Then its a good chance the opponents dive in 7C and I may get to make a FP.

[jillybean]

Greetings from a wet Vancouver, I know where I'd rather be.

 

FP I assume is forcing pass? We are so inexperienced with forcing passes, one of us is likely to do just the opposite and pass :angry:

[Winstonm]

Greeting from Sand Springs, Oklahoma, U.S.A.

 

FP, forcing pass, is surely one of the most difficult concepts to grasp. For a beginning-type player, I would suggest a simple agreement:

 

If we are in a game forcing auction and the opponents invervene, a pass requires forth seat to take some type of action, either doubling or bidding.

 

That makes is short, sweet, and playable.

[neilkaz]

Greetings from Barrington IL and I am in complete agreement with Winstonm

 

Thx for the clarification between 5N and 6♣ guys and gals.

 

.. neilkaz ..