jmc Posted December 16, 2006 Report Share Posted December 16, 2006 I am playing precision with transfer positives. We use 1c-1s as the balanced positive. Originaly we played the responses as outlined in Precision today by Berkowitz that can be found below. We have found that the balanced positive having a range of 8-13 can be a bit tricky in this response structure. Sometimes after p made a response showing 11-13 we wanted to be in slam opposite 13 but not otherwise and it was just to hard to untangle everything. Does anyone know what Berkowitz-Cohen actually play after a balaned positive? Does anyone have a structure they think is great? One idea I have seen and like is to play the 1x balanced positive as 8-11 or 15+ and use 2NT for 12-14 hands. 1c-2nt-3c can be Baron. Thanks for any input you all have. jmc Structure I am thinking of changing to:1c-1s-1nt asks further description 2c-both majors2d-4 h and a minor2h-4 s and a minor2s- both minors2NT- 33343c- 33433d=34333h-43333s not used3nt not used Advanced Precision Structure1c-1s-1nt asks description 2c-both majors 8-102d-4h 8-10 may have second suit 2nt asks2h-4s 8-10 may have secon suit 2nt asks2s- 8-10 minor or minors 2nt asks further description2nt- 11-13 balanced 4333 3c asks 4-cd suit3c- clubs and a higher suit 11-13 3d asks higher suit3d- diamonds and hearts 11-133h- hearts and spades 11-133s- spades and diamonds 11-133nt - 11-13 with a bad 5332 and 5 cds in a minor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 Try this: 1h = spades1s = hearts or 12+ balanced1nt = clubs2c = diamonds2d = 8-11 balanced; asking for five card major Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 You have plenty of room after 1♣ 1♠; 1NT. Using the cheapest bid to show one of two distributions is relatively inefficient but the fact that you can do this and still show all of your distributions illustrates how much room you have. I am sure that you can come up with a solution and your solution looks fine. I would make frequent use of a quantitative 4NT bid. In order to do this you might need to go through every sequence and agree how you can agree partner's suit in order to use RKCB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csdenmark Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 I am playing precision with transfer positives. We use 1c-1s as the balanced positive. Originaly we played the responses as outlined in Precision today by Berkowitz that can be found below. We have found that the balanced positive having a range of 8-13 can be a bit tricky in this response structure. Sometimes after p made a response showing 11-13 we wanted to be in slam opposite 13 but not otherwise and it was just to hard to untangle everything. Does anyone know what Berkowitz-Cohen actually play after a balaned positive? Does anyone have a structure they think is great? One idea I have seen and like is to play the 1x balanced positive as 8-11 or 15+ and use 2NT for 12-14 hands. 1c-2nt-3c can be Baron. Thanks for any input you all have. jmc Structure I am thinking of changing to:1c-1s-1nt asks further description 2c-both majors2d-4 h and a minor2h-4 s and a minor2s- both minors2NT- 33343c- 33433d=34333h-43333s not used3nt not used Advanced Precision Structure1c-1s-1nt asks description 2c-both majors 8-102d-4h 8-10 may have second suit 2nt asks2h-4s 8-10 may have secon suit 2nt asks2s- 8-10 minor or minors 2nt asks further description2nt- 11-13 balanced 4333 3c asks 4-cd suit3c- clubs and a higher suit 11-13 3d asks higher suit3d- diamonds and hearts 11-133h- hearts and spades 11-133s- spades and diamonds 11-133nt - 11-13 with a bad 5332 and 5 cds in a minorAccording to convention card for Berkowitz-Cohen they dont play transfer-positives. It is therefore most likely they play ordinary continuation after 1♣-1NT. Those champion systems I know of playing transfer positive are Meckwell and Icelandic. They both use 1♥ as balanced. It matters very little which kind of continuations you use after 1♣. I know very well many think it matters. What matters in Precision, as well in all other strong systems, are 2 topics and those only: - Limit openings- Principle of captaincy Those takes years to get right. To put up bid sequences in BBO Forum is of no real importance. To play a good Precision you can use any version with any combination of bids. The simplest one is Kathy Wei's 'Simplified Precision.' Good as anything else. Still it is so the ultimative Precision version is Belladonna/Garozzo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillFinque Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 The structure we have been using for several years is: 1: transfer to a minor shows 5 and singleton or void, or 6+ 2: 1 Spade is 8-13 bal. After 1 NT (normally 17-19 but can be lots higher) then 2c-both majors 2d-4 h 2h-4 s 2s- 8-10 after 2NT (ask) show 5 card minor 2NT- 11-13 Seems to work most of the time Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy_Scot Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 My club partner and I use a variation based on "The Subtle Club" by Murray Wolf and Merrell Anderson.Their treatment provides a number of "pattern" bids for strong balanced hands in response to a Precision (or any strong) club opener.A feature we found really useful was the 4 point spread used for 1NT opening (12-15) and responses (8-11) coupled with a set of "extended" responses to stayman which accurately place the strength and distribution of the NT bidder.I will gladly mail a copy of our "system" to anyone who is interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adebisi Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 As i played for severeal years: 1♥= 8-11 bal or 12+any Opener:A: 1NT 17-19 bal->2x=12+ 5+suit, 2NT="Stayman", 3x=12+ 4441 spl B:2♣♦♥♠ 6+suit C.1♠ all other hands->1/2NT=8-11/14+bal,2x= 12+ 5+suit, 3x=12+ 4441 1♠=8-11 5+♥ 1NT=8-11 5+♠ 2♣♦=8-11 5+suit 2NT=12-13 bal 3♣♦♥♠=8-11 4441 spl. Works fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ansoe Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 To deal with positive responses with balanced or 4441 hands you might consider this scheme. If you are concerned about 8 - 13 range a relay can narrow it. 1c > 1s positive no five card or longer suit1nt ? 2c = any 4441 2d = 4h and max of 13hcp 2h = 4s and max of 13hcp 2s = no 4 card M max of 13hcp 2n = 14+ any 4333 hand 3c = 14+ 4c and another 4 card suit 3d = 14+ 4d with a 4 card M 3h = 14+ 3h and 4/4 minors 3s = 14+ 3s and 4/4 minors Opener can relay if necessary or sign off. Openers hand is undisclosed in the auction and opener is declarer most of the time. This is the major advantage in not using 1nt as a response with a balanced hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 I played a similar structure for several years. What I really hated was the 2N response to show 14+ balanced. The sequences became very cramped. I never understood why two hands that were close to the slam zone needed to start investigations at the 3 level. My last version had 2♥ (2♠/2N were the red / black 3 suiters) to show a balanced 8-11, with 1♠ as either 12+ balanced or a positive with a 2 suiter (another combination that gets messy using transfer responses). After 1♣ - 1♠, Opener auto'd 1N; then: 2♣ = 2 suiter (with another relay), 2♦ = balanced with 4♥, etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 KLPV16's Scheme: 1H = spades, clubs, or 15+ bal1S = hearts,diamonds, or 12-14 bal1NT = 2 suiter, 5-52C = single suiter, 6+2D = balanced, 8-11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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