Where did the wheels fall off here

[sceptic]

All three hanbds I played in a pick up tourney and neither me nor my p left the table in disgust LOL

 

Can I have your opinions on the following hands as to where the wheels fell off and please asign blame we are thick skinned

 

Hand 1

 

[hv=d=n&v=e&n=sakq82h75dat72c63&w=sj763hqjt42dcq742&e=s954ha986dq9643c5&s=sthk3dkj85cakjt98]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     1♠    Pass  2♣

 Pass  2♦    Pass  4NT

 Pass  5♥    Pass  6NT

 Pass  Pass  Dbl   Pass

 Pass  Pass  

 

Hand 2

 

[hv=d=n&v=e&n=sakq82h75dat72c63&w=sj763hqjt42dcq742&e=s954ha986dq9643c5&s=sthk3dkj85cakjt98]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     -     1♠

 Pass  2♠    3♣    3♥

 Pass  3NT   Pass  4♥

 Pass  4♠    Pass  Pass

 Dbl   Pass  Pass  Pass

 

 

Hand 3

[hv=d=n&v=e&n=sakq82h75dat72c63&w=sj763hqjt42dcq742&e=s954ha986dq9643c5&s=sthk3dkj85cakjt98]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     Pass  1♣

 1♥    1NT   2♦    Pass

 2♠    3♣    3♥    Pass

 Pass  Dbl   Pass  Pass

 Pass  

[whereagles]

Hand 1. Where's the problem? If the club hook were on, you'd probably have made it. I don't like concluding in 6NT, though. Prefer 6♦, but 6NT certainly was playable.

 

Hand 2. North should havebid 3♠ after 3♥. He's got a min, club wastage and no fillers to pard's majors. There the matter would have rested..

 

Hand 3. 2♠ was totally uncalled for, especially with a passed pard. If you absolutely cannot stand passing, bid 3♦. By the way, 3♥ is also wrong. Unless opps are loonies, overcaller cannot possibly have a reverse and bidding on a likely misfit now is a flight of fancy, to say the least :)

[pbleighton]

Note: it would be nice to know the system, especially on slam bidding.

 

Hand 1: South has a 15 count, one ace, missing the DQ, with a stiff in pd's primary suit, with no indication from pd that he has more than 12 hcp... you want to play in a diamond slam, if any slam at all. Would 3D have been forcing? If so, that was your bid. Is 3C forcing? If not, with no agreements, 4NT is optimistic but not terrible, but I would settle in 6D not 6NT.

 

A tough hand, especially without agreements. I might bid 3NT if playing Standard American.

 

Hand 2: Whereagles has a point, 3S is fine, but it's IMPs vul, so 4S is fine too :)

I don't understand 3NT at all.

 

Hand 3: 3H at unfavorable with a small doubleton?????

 

Peter

[neilkaz]

As Peter stated, it is nice to know what sys you were playing.

 

Hand 1) if playing SAYC (I go out of my way to avoid it) is a 3♦ raise GF ? If so, then that's my bid since if I bid 4NT and find out the bad news like we did on this hand we are forced to slam (unless somehow PD knows to bid 5NT over 5♠ which seems doubtful since it is his opened suit and also a disaster if set or if 6 makes). In 2/1 GF the immediate 4NT blast certain is premature, IMHO. That being said it may be hard to not ask for keys later but missing an ace and the Q we are in trouble. I would have stopped in 6♦ since there's a good chance to want to ruff something somewhere and in 6NT you're normally in trouble anyhow without a 3-2 ♦ split. 6♦ would be doubled and then you run to 6NTx. This is hand somewhat unlucky for your side, since looking at both hands a slam makes quite often.

 

Once again I can gripe all night about how poor standard minor suit slam bidding is and if you play a direct jump to 4♦ as Minorwood, you can get out below a disasterous doubled slam on the hand.

 

Hand 2) The 3♥ rebid as a game try is optimistic, but not terrible, but since the 3♣ bid has clearly downgrade N's hand and he has only 3 small trumps and is 4333 he should sign off in 3♠.

 

Hand 3) This hand was very poorly bid, IMHO. I'd start with a take out double since you can stand a response in ♦ and aren't strong enough to rebid 2♠. That being said, the overcall with a 5 carder is OK, but the 2 spade rebid with and aceless hand and the ♥ sitting poorly due to the opp 1NT call is very risky opposite a passed PD. I would pass 2♦ and then raise to 3♦ in comp if I dared. PD's 3♥ bid is awful, but he expects you to have more of a hand (ie maybe 3+ working HCP more) and no ♦ support.

[inquiry]

Ok, here goes, for the most part, I agree totally with whereagles. Board one, six NT is 50% (needing club hook) so isn't awful, and at imps I would steer towards 6♦ over 6NT. Having said that, I am not a huge fan of the leap to blackwood on this hand, but 50% slams are not horrible... down a zillion doubled becomes sort of bad.

 

Second hand is easy. 3♥ first is a game try. This bid DID NOT improve north's hand so bidding 3NT on a minimimum flat hand with all those wasted minor cards is wrong. Bid 3♠ if partner has grander ideas he can bid again.

 

Third hand is also easy. The wheels fell off when WEST bid over 2♦. IF east had a good hand, he would have doubled 1NT. And West has a light overcall and the NT bid behind him and his very poor heart suit and low values suggest caution. I would have passed 2♦. Those three kings and one lone jack speak volumes. IF I was going to bid again as WEST, I would "support with support" and raise to 3♦. Reversing to 2♠ would never, ever occur to me.

 

Normally with this pattern I will bid heart planning on doubling clubs next to bring spades and diamonds into the picture. On this hand, I will not be strong enough for the second bid, so an alternative is to double 1♣ if you want to get spades into the picture, and I probably would have started that way.

[sceptic]

sayc nothing fancy and 0314

I was north hand 1

I was north hand 2

I was east hand 3

[1eyedjack]

I thought hand 2 was a closer call than the other correspondents.

 

3N is not so bad a bid IF you can be sure that partner will pass it. For one thing it gets the hand played by North and protects South's minor tenaces. North has no shape, and if any 3 level contract has a hope of making, 3N rates to make on a few occasions when a Club lead through the AQ would beat 3S.

 

It is of course a disastrous bid if partner doesn't pass, and that is one good reason for not bidding it. You don't much like the prospects of 3S either, but that at least is unlikely to get doubled.

 

I quite like an initial 1N response, despite the certainty of a Spade fit, but that will be an unpopular view here. Difficult to know where that would lead to, but South would I think be less likely to go hunting bear after he has shown Hearts and North then gives his obvious preference.

[P_Marlowe]

sayc nothing fancy and 0314

I was north hand 1

I was  north hand 2

I was east hand 3

Hi,

 

1) as was stated, playing SAYC,

3D by opener is forcing (to game),

since responder promised to bid again.

 

I know, why 6NT was choosen, to protect

the King off hearts, but you can still bid

6NT later, ... and 6C is still in the picture,

North may have a 3card club suit

 

2) 3NT was ok, you are max. for your single

raise, ok you are 4-3-3-3, but thats why

you suggest 3NT, opener was not interested,

because he had a distributional hand, but

openers hand could also have been different

correcting 4H to 4S is clear as well

 

3) You have found a fit, raise partner

If West wants to show boh Mayors, use the Michaels

Cue bid, ... assuming the partnership agrees that 5-4

is a possible patter, not the worst agreement.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

<snip>

Hand 2:  Whereagles has a point, 3S is fine, but it's IMPs vul, so 4S is fine too  :rolleyes:

I don't understand 3NT at all.

<snip>

If you understand 4S, why dont you

understand 3NT?

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

Added later: An open question is, if the partnership plays SuppX,

hich would mean, that the invitation was based on distribution

rather than high card power.

[pbleighton]

'If you understand 4S, why dont you

understand 3NT?"

 

Because you know that you have an 8 card fit, and pd is unbalanced. Why play 3NT at IMPs? At MPs I could understand, but not IMPs.

 

Peter

[1eyedjack]

'If you understand 4S, why dont you

understand 3NT?"

 

Because you know that you have an 8 card fit, and pd is unbalanced. Why play 3NT at IMPs? At MPs I could understand, but not IMPs.

 

Peter

3NT is a better bid than 4S in my opinion, at IMP or MP. Both are an overbid, but that is a separate issue.

 

Both members of our partnership know that we have an 8 card Spade fit and that partner is unbalanced, and both members of the partnership know that both know etc. Assuming that partner has an option to remove 3N I would trust him to do so when it is correct.

 

One thing that partner does not know is that in context I have a balanced hand with stuffing in the opponent's suit and no ruffing values. Also I would be rightsiding a NT contract where Spades are likely played the wrong way up.

 

I have encountered many occasions when 3N is the last making game (or only game that has a prayer) despite holding an 8 card major suit fit, and not all of those occasions are when both players are balanced. In those cases I regard it as just as important to be in 3NT at IMP as I do at MP.

 

Bidding 3NT simply to describe your hand is of course wrong if you are already certain of the correct contract or if the information imparted to the opponents is likely to be of more value to them than the information imparted to partner. Arguably that may be the case in this particular hand (I have my doubts) but it is not necessarily generally the case.

[pbleighton]

"I have encountered many occasions when 3N is the last making game (or only game that has a prayer) despite holding an 8 card major suit fit, and not all of those occasions are when both players are balanced. In those cases I regard it as just as important to be in 3NT at IMP as I do at MP."

 

My experience is different - it is that 4M is more likely to be the right contract at IMPs than 3NT when one pd is unbalanced. That's not to say that 3NT is always wrong, just that 4M is more likely to be right.

 

Mileage obviously varies.

 

Peter