What's your choice?

[Echognome]

[hv=d=e&v=b&s=skt6haq94dq9832ca]133|100|Scoring: MP

(1♠) - ?[/hv]

 

If it makes a difference to you, opponents are playing Acol. That is 4 card majors, weak NT.

 

Your call?

[Gerben42]

Pass. Then after 1♠ - 1NT - 2♣, I double.

[whereagles]

Playing equal-level correction, dbl. If not... I think I'll double as well.. lol.

[Blofeld]

My order of preference:

 

Pass

1NT

2♦

DBL

 

Actually I think it's pretty close between the first two.

[hrothgar]

1NT

 

I have a balanced hand with 1.5 positional stoppers

 

Happy to get the hand off my chest from the get go

[Winstonm]

As much as I would like to get involved I simply don't have the playing strength I would like to jump in at the 2-level as my hand is really more defensive in nature.

There is certainly risk in passing but too much risk/gain for bidding, IMO.

[paulg]

I'd bid 1NT but expecting to be disappointed. Better than the sinking feeling that may happen following a pass ;)

 

Paul

[inquiry]

1NT Raptor (so I voted other). These hands are why I play raptor.... so that my doubles are shape specific or true-monsters....

[Robert]

Hi everyone

 

1NT=Raptor.

 

What inquiry posted.

 

Regards,

Robert

[hrothgar]

Hi everyone

 

1NT=Raptor.

 

What inquiry posted.

I'm changing my bid to "other: as well.

 

I'm bidding a special convention called the "Pull a bid out of my ass" 2♦ which specifically shows

 

1. A bad 5 card Diamond suit

2. 4 Hearts to the AQ

3. 3 Spades with a stopper

4. The stiff Ace of Clubs

 

For Christ's sake...

 

Bidding questions like this one aren't contests to see whether you can find some gadget to sidestep the basic question at hand. I play Raptor in a number of partnerships. Its a great gadget and if it were available here the bid would be obvious.

 

However, the poll specifically notes that 1NT is natural.

You dont get to play Raptor.

 

What are you bidding?

[Guest Jlall]

1N natural. Hands like this are specifically why I play 1N natural.

[awm]

Assuming fairly standard agreements I will bid 1NT. This hand is a bit good for me to be eager to pass, and the diamonds are too lousy for me to want to bid them.

 

If I had the agreement that double followed by correcting diamonds to clubs did not show extras (which I do in some partnerships) then I would double. Of course, if I had hrothgar's "pull a bid 2♦" agreement I'd use that too, so perhaps that's not relevent. I wouldn't risk a double without some special agreement because partner is all too likely to bid clubs and this isn't the kind of strong one-suiter partner will expect for double followed by a diamond bid.

[Gerben42]

To those saying 1NT Raptor - you cannot change the given system!

1NT would be my second choice but I would like it to show a good hand.

[mikeh]

1N, natural. I'll put a ♦ in with my clubs should partner end up as declarer, which is unlikely.

[inquiry]

However, the poll specifically notes that 1NT is natural.

You dont get to play Raptor.

 

What are you bidding?

I didn't read this poll as 1NT had to be natural. I read it as if would you vote for a natural 1NT (along with some other bids)... and if not, what other options would you choose. My option is to play 1NT as raptor, so this is what I said.

 

I certainly didn't read

1NT (natural), and then

other

 

to mean that I could not express the bid I woud make on the hand. There is plenty of room in hte write up of the hand to explain "You are not playing raptor" if that was the point.. .on the other hand, could have included 1NT (not raptor) and 1NT (raptor) in the options if they interested I guess.

[Robert]

Hi everyone

 

The conditions stated several choices. One such choice was 'Other please explain.'

 

Apparently inquiry and I both checked 'other' and also 'explained.'

 

hrothgar Perhaps you would explain why you neglected to read inquirys' post?

 

Please read the conditions of contest before you compain without a reason. Civilized discourse is much better when you read the question and write your answer afterwards with the facts known.

 

I was very careful to first list 1NT=Raptor and 'explained' my choice as per the conditions of the post.

 

Where you produce your bids 'from' is your business.

 

If you knew Raptor, you would also know that it does not promise diamonds over a 1S bid. It promises 4 cards in the other major(hearts here) and 5+ cards in 'one' of the minors.

 

I am bidding 'other' please explain. If that is not a choice, why was it listed as such?

 

Regards,

Robert

[cherdano]

Robert, of course Richard knows what raptor is. I doubt you intend it as such, but sometimes your posts come off a little patronizing.

 

I think the point is that most of us are tired by gadget discussions that we have had many hundred times, and instead prefer bidding judgment discussions within a given system, among other things because that's much more important for becoming a better bridge player. Especially if that was obviously the intention of the original poster (who obviously knows that this is a raptor-NT hand).

[Winstonm]

I think the point is that most of us are tired by gadget discussions

 

I agree in principle with Cherdano (straight conventional answers don't help the debate), but I don't think it hurts to mention a convention that applies, and anyway, in language and especially the written language there is room for interpretation. I inferred from the poster the same question as did Cherdano, it seems, in that the intent of the question was not what to bid but whether one should bid at all. Even if chosing Raptor, the question is to me why do you elect to use it on this hand and how you came to that reasoning.

[neilkaz]

Tough hand here without Raptor but we should bid within the system being asked for by the original poster.

 

Anyhow..if I double and PD bids ♣ I will be sick to my stomach. If he rebids ♥ I love it. But if I bid 1NT natural and he uses Stayman or transfers to ♥ we have still found our fit. If we play in NT I have 1.5 stoppers.

 

If 1NT is X'd, I'll have a tough decision as to whether to run to 2D but think I will.

 

Close call, but I prefer 1NT to passing or doubling.

[Robert]

Hi everyone

 

I answered just like inquiry did. I drew an attack from hrothgar and inquiry did not.

 

I read the post as inquiry did. The last 'choice' was marked 'other' explain.

 

I like a Raptor bid with this hand because it shows 4 hearts(over a 1S bid) and a 5+ minor. This is a difficult hand type to describe 'without putting your head on the block' by bidding a bad 5 card suit at the two level.

 

Richard makes personal attacks on me and I 'come off as patronizing?' What exactly is his behavior called?

 

His 'strawman argument' attempt that 'misdescribed the shape of a Raptor overcall' was at best in poor taste. I was wrong(in his view) because 'he did not understand' a convention that he claims to play.

 

He gets to use 'Christ', 'crap', 'ass,' and assorted other 'choice words'(inquiry did not censure their use by Richard, so I assume that I will be allowed the same leeway) during his 'civil discourse' ranting and raving.

 

Richard also draws a number of supporters that say these words are needed to show his 'strong feellings.' How about using 'I doubt this very much' or perhaps 'I object in the strongest possible manner?'

 

If you do not want gadget discussions, why not leave out the choice of 'other' and 'explain' as the final 'choice. If the last choice of 'other' had not been listed, I would not have replied to the post.

 

If I have offended anyone, please explain 'what exactly offended you.' Responding with a strawman example will not be judged an acceptable answer.

 

Richard is allowed to rant and rave while using strawman arguments that would be out of place in a junior high setting. Anyone else object to strawman arguments or is that tactic accepted behavior on this forum?

 

Just my opinion. ;)

 

Happy holidays and best regards,

Robert

[Echognome]

I have nothing against Raptor. I only mentioned that 1NT would not be raptor because I wasn't playing it. I think it's fair enough to say something like "I would pass given your methods, but that's why I play raptor." But, answer however you like.

[Blofeld]

Robert,

 

Your use of inverted commas for emphasis (at least I assume that's why you're using them) comes across as rather snobbish and patronising, as though the debate were beneath you.

 

You can use italics, bold, underlined, or *starred* text for emphasis (or even UPPER CASE, though that needs a degree of care or it looks like you're shouting the whole time). But 'inverted commas' are traditionally for when you don't want to commit to using the term, either because you don't fully understand it or you don't approve of it.

 

At any rate, I found your post patronising, but when I analysed why I did so I realised that this was one of the major reasons. If you could stop using inverted commas I'd be really grateful.

 

Thanks,

Owen

[hrothgar]

Hi everyone

 

I answered just like inquiry did.  I drew an attack from hrothgar and inquiry did not.

I wasn't attacking you or Ben. I was responding to a a specific point that had cropped up during the discussion. Your post happened to have been the last in the thread so it was the one that I responded to. I would have been equally happy making precisely the same point about Ben's post and I have criticized his postings on these grounds in the past. Yesterday you were "lucky" enough to draw the boobie prize.

 

Part of the reason that I find this style of posting so annoying is that you (and Ben) normally has interesting things to say in the bidding forums. I would have liked to see your thought processes about the relative merits of bididng 1NT with a single Ace as opposed to bidding a miserable Diamond suit at the two level or passing and somehow hoping to catch up in the bidding. (Some folks might even consider a Michaels cue bid). There are a lot of different ways to bid this hand and a lot of different arguments that can be advanced. Referencing the existence of a convention that most of us already know about isn't one of them.

 

I'd be very happy to see a discussion about the merits and drawbacks of Raptor compared to a natural NT overcall. We might even get Fred to comment, since he doesn't think that Raptor is particularly useful. However, if we're going to have this discussion we probably want a wide ranging talk about the best way to design a comprehensive system of overcalls. In turn, we can then judge how well the system handles a wide variety of different hands, intervention by the opponents and the like.

[Free]

I agree with Richard on this one: it's clear that the topic starter wants a natural response. Everyone knows that IF you play raptor it's a no-brainer. IF you play FREEWILL overcalls, it's a no-brainer either. IF you play powerdoubles from 15HCP up, again it's easy. You can make up new systems and use that as well, like the "pull a bid out of my ass 2♦" :) . The problem is: what do you bid if you're playing natural, normal stuff, which is NOT designed for this type of hands.

If he wanted to know if you're playing raptor, for sure he would've included a "1NT (raptor)"-option, which would obviously destroy the entire purpose of this poll...

 

I pass, with 1NT as a close second.

[dake50]

My 2D implies H, else why bid? So 2D, hoping for 2S asking S-stop and 3NT.