Conventions to Learn

[neilkaz]

I'll mention a few conventions that aren't in BBO Basic that I think are very useful and not too hard.

 

1) Inverted Minors is tops on my list. How anyone plays without some kind of forcing minor raise is beyond me. However, they are many different rebidding schemes by opener and that causes confusion and difficulty in learning this great convention.

 

2) Some kind of New Minor Forcing or Check Back. Many here in the US play NMF, but I bet they'd switch to XYZ once they tried it. Many many hands involve opener rebidding 1NT and it is essential to be able to accurate probe further or s/off in a suit. XYZ also applies when opener's rebid is 1 of a suit and that can be somewhat useful.

 

3) A direct Q bid in the overcaller's suit shows a limit raise or better for opener's suit. This allows preemptive raises after the overcall just like the Jordon 2NT after a take out double does.

 

4) Lebensohl uses and artificial 2NT bid to be able to distinguish between good and bas hands bid at the 3 level in competition in response to your PD's double of their weak 2 or when RHO has overcalled PD's 1NT opening. Subsequent bidding can also show whether their suit is stopped for NT, but if intermediates simply learn that 2♠-X-P-3♥ shows a decent hand, and 2♠-X-P-2NT!-P-3♣!-P-3♥ shows a weak hand with no game interest unless the doubler has lots of extra values, the opp's weak 2's are less effective. Leb can also be used to show a minimum in response to PD's reverses.

 

5) Splinters to show singletons and a game force can take up lots of room, but when used properly can help reach slams on somewhat less than normal HCP since PD knows his honor cards outside the splinter suit are working while his KJx in the splinter suit is worth less than normal and he may then avoid a slam probe.

 

6) RKCB is useful for staying out of bad slams since you can find out about the K and Q of trumps in addition to all 4 aces. It can sometimes be confusing as to what the trump suit is, of if one has been specified. I also like Minorwood to keep the bidding low to allow one to bail out in 5 of a minor, but it can be confusing for inters. as to when 4m is Minorwood and not that many people play it as of yet.

 

So when I play some kind of standard American 5 card majors with pickups, I hope they play some of these, above.

 

BBB lists Landy 2♣ over opps 1NT but I prefer DONT to Capp and I find that more Americans can play Capp than Landy and even DONT than Landy.

 

I prefer negX thru 3♠ and am surprised that BBB and SAYC only play them thru 2♠ since most players play them higher.

 

Jacoby 2NT is a must for a GF major suit raise and adds more accuracy than bidding a 2/1 and then bidding game at some point. It is part of SAYC (many don't know that) and BBB and should be learned by all who play standard American systems.

 

100% systems on in response to a 1NT overcall makes life easier and I wish it were standard in BBB.

 

4th suit forcing is also a must and listed in BBB and BBA.

 

Just my opinions .. neilkaz ..

[keylime]

If I had to provide a list of "needed conventions" that were off the beaten path, here's what I'd offer:

 

Transfer bids with Keri

Intermediate 2 bids (2D/H/S in standard)

Fit showing jumps in competition

Splinter jumps out of competition

Lionel, Meckwell, or Landy (Landy's not THAT bad)

Weak NT

Romex Stayman over 2NT and/or Soloff

Principle of Slow Arrival

Swedish 2NT with Invitational Jump Shifts

2 Way NMF

Gazzilli 2C

G/F Inverted Minors

Turbo

Cuebid Doubles

Intermediate Jump Overcalls

 

Needed books:

 

Watson's Play of the Hand

Kantar's books about defense and RKCB

Bid Better, Much Better by Klinger

Why You Lose at Bridge

[jillybean]

This thread is very interesting but seems to be getting a bit off topic from 'Intermediate Conventions' :)

 

One question, why should we learn both 4sf and nmf ?

[the hog]

One convention no one has mentioned, which I personally think is a vast improvement over Stayman is Keri. The only problem of course, is that you have to play this in a pemanent partnership as virtually no pick up partner will know it. Even if they do, their interpretations may well differ from yours. Mind you, the latter part of my comment applies to Puppet stayman as well.

[keylime]

Keri definitely is much better than Stayman and transfers, agreed. Just being able to stop at 2 on invite hands is worth the price of admission.

[Robert]

Hi jillybean2

 

nmf is normally played after a 1NT rebid(many also play it after a natural 2NT rebid)

 

4sf is used when the partnership has bid three suits.

 

I like to play the XYZ convention 'if possible' instead of both 4sf and nmf. When I first found out about this convention, it seemed much better than either of those bids.

 

Hi everyone

 

I looked at Keri, however, it just did not do nearly as well in getting me to all of the good contracts that my version of Stayman achieved. Keri also seemed to have a couple of holes in the bidding that just proved too great a price to pay.

 

Intermediate? We left that far behind when the first long list of conventions was posted. Most players would do much better to play fewer conventions. They need to 'know' how to use(and also 'not use') a convention before it becomes worthwhile.

 

Regards,

Robert

[gwnn]

awm,

 

I think reading Partnership Bidding at Bridge (the competitive auction) by Robson/Segal is very helpful (especially if both partners do it). Its copyright has been removed and it is widely available online. Has it ever occured to you how often you have the auction all for yourself? Like 4-5 times a session? It has gread advice available and some "conventional calls" in it (fit jumps, fit non-jumps, etc etc) that are not mandatory, but helpful. I think 99% of posters told u that NMF is a "must" - Andrew Robson and Ollie Segal will tell you otherwise ("raise on 3 card support with a minimum unbalanced hand") - will get to play some 4-3 fits BUT that will help one's declarer play <-- good thing. No more NMF, Yes more naturality!

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

assuming he already understands the basics,

i.e. the essential conventions

 

- Stayman

- 4th suit forcing

- Takeout double / Neg. Double

- Blackwood

 

he should look at conventions helping him to

survive the interference by the opponents

 

- Cue Bid to show a sound raise, direct raises being weak

- a simple form of Lebensohl / Good Bad 2NT / what ever

you may call it.

If they interfere on the 2 level, a 2NT bit is always

artificial

 

Simply put: He should look out for conventions with

a high frequency, which reoccur under different names in

similar situations again and again.

He should be wary to add a convention unless he thinks

he understands the pros and the cons of the conventions,

and he should add them slowly over time.

 

With kind regrards

Marlowe

[paulg]

I taught my wife to play bridge over 15 years ago and we still play the same system and conventions. She does not play very much (as she is the top woman Scrabble player in the world) but is a strong card player who does not worry about conventions.

 

We play:

• Stayman
  
• 4th suit forcing
  
• Low level doubles are takeout if we do not shown a fit (so this includes takeout, responsive and negative doubles)
  
• Blackwood when 4NT is on the second round or a jump
  
• Simple carding
  
• Fit jumps (a recent addition)
  

This has been sufficient for us to win multiple club and county titles, plus a Mixed Pairs title at a national congress.

 

Note that we do not play transfers, unusual 2NT, Michaels, RKCB, inverted minors, any defence to 1NT, Lebensohl, weak 2s, complex major suit raises, new minor forcing. They are not necessary to do well if you have a sound set of basic agreements.

 

However, she would clearly struggle to play with anyone on-line with this minimal set and I think she would probably have to learn to play transfers. But everything else is just a crutch and improving your declarer play and defence will be far more rewarding than learning a lot of conventions.

 

Paul

[P_Marlowe]

This thread is very interesting but seems to be getting a bit off topic from 'Intermediate Conventions'  :P

 

One question, why should we learn both 4sf and nmf ?

Hi,

 

if you understand 4sf, you understand nmf.

if you understand 4sf, you also understand

cue bidding the enemy suit.

 

4sf is one of the most important conventions if the

auction is uncontested. (*)

4sf comes in different flavours, and if you say 4sf is only

on in responders 2nd bid, than ... whats the hype.

But if you say 4sf is on if our side has bid 3 suits

naturally, than this covers a whole lot of ground.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

 

(*) It is true, most auctions are contested, but you should

already know how to walk before you start to run.

 

If you cant bid correctly in the cases the opponents

give you all the room which is available, you have no

chance to bid correctly in cases they kill the space.

[csdenmark]

Such lists with conventions has a tendency to become wish lists. In another thread Richard provided a link to international TD's discussions who agreed that 95% dont even have solid knowledge of a basic system. I assume they pointed to the problem discussed here.

 

Certainly we all will benefit from knowing everything but we will benefit more if we knew the same and especially knew it in the same way. Ben pointed to that. I think that normal players has a fair knowledge of about 25% from the lists. His pick up partners also knows 25% but not the same 25%. Their shared pool of knowledge to use and to take advantage from will be reduced, say to 10-15%. Next partner again some other 10-15% and that to be reduced to 8-10% with first partner.

 

In that way bridge is reduced to something very simple nobody dare to talk about.

 

This is heading for rude behavior, poor score, leaving partner etc.

[Walddk]

I agree with Paul. Play as few conventions as possible. The more you add, the more there is to forget. If I was asked to choose just one convention from the bidding and carding area, I would choose:

 

- Negative doubles.

- Count.

 

I regard take-out doubles as part of a basic system. I think I would do well with no more than the two gadgets mentioned above, and I am convinced that beginners and intermeidates are much better off if they don't add much more, if anything.

 

You often see profiles cluttered with all sorts of conventions. Names of conventions don't mean a thing; the essential part is to understand and use them properly, and most don't.

 

Am I wrong when I claim that in most instances all those conventions appear on the profiles because the users want to impress other people? Perhaps in order to get a game with a better partner? Nothing hurts like the truth, and in my view those players often show that they don't understand the implications of the gadgets once they sit down to play them.

 

Roland

[vang]

1) Inverted Minors is tops on my list. How anyone plays without some kind of forcing minor raise is beyond me.

ask Chemla, Lebel or other french champions (they sometimes fake a 1D after 1C or 2C after 1D response).

 

imo, inverted minors is good but not mandatory.

[Walddk]

1) Inverted Minors is tops on my list. How anyone plays without some kind of forcing minor raise is beyond me.

I survived the first 30 years of my bridge career without inverted minor raises. I play them but I can live without them. It's nice to have "inverted" on your CC or profile, but if you don't have agreements regarding the subsequent auction, they are useless.

 

"Inverted minors, partner"? "Sure". Board 3:

 

1♣ - 2♣

??

 

And then many invent a bid they expect partner to understand. Many fail to realise that once you add a new convention, it takes a fair amount of time to go through all the different options and meanings.

 

You don't have time for that with a pick-up partner on BBO, so if I was asked "inverted minors"? by someone I do not have specific agreements with, I would decline. I much prefer to play Goren, Stayman, Blackwood instead of wasting my time with all sorts of conventions, most of which the person who suggests them don't know in detail.

 

Roland

[Free]

My advice is to concentrate on competitive bidding:

 

1. takeout doubles: always, at every level,... (with few exceptions)

2. various ways to raise partner (including fit jumps and non jumps)

 

Read Partnership Bidding at Bridge from Robson-Seagal, great book, covers it all!

[csdenmark]

Sad to acknowledge. Once again we see several persons claiming solid skill levels seems unable to understand what the intended distinction between below really is:

 

Beginner and Intermediate Bridge Discussion

For our novice to intermediate members to discuss issues and share advice (and for more skilled players to answer questions

 

and

 

Advanced and Expert-Class Bridge

Forum designated for experienced and adept bridge players to discuss more advanced topics.

[kenberg]

Yesterday I did some kibitzing, watching world class players (really). In one auction a player bid 4NT taken as ace asking (or kc asking) but not intended as ace asking. In another game the auction began 1N-(2D), the diamond bid showing a hand with one major. On a later round his partner bid 4H, doubled by the NT opener, and the 2D bidder had to decide whether this showed hearts only or was pass/correct. He guessed wrong. Both stories ended well: In the first they arrived at 6H making, in the second they got to 5HX, a good sac against the making 5C. But they were skating on thin ice. Never mind who, but trust me that it is impossible to claim these players don't know bridge. So I support all and everyone who have been saying that after you get the basic list then spend some time knowing when they are on/off, when they should be used, what the follow-up bids are and all things of that order. Experts will screw this up at times so perfection is unlikely, but w/o discussion the screw ups will be far more frequent.

 

There is a difference between "advice to intermediates who want to form a developing partnership" and "advice to intermediates, or anyone, who want to play a few hands on line with a random partner". In the second case, the fewer conventions the better. In the first case, agree upon a source (book, person or website) for guidance on how the convention is played. On bbo, you could agree to read bobh's notes, for example, and agree that any convention you adopt will be played just as he says, and to ask his advice on anything that is unclear. Or go to the csdenmark site. Or a site of your choice. Or you could buy a book with an extended discussion of the convention you choose (both buying the same book). Also, some conventions work together smoothly, others clash. Some thought or guidance is needed with this.

[ArcLight]

Here is an artcile by Larry Cohen

 

"What Conventions should we Play"

 

http://www.larryco.com/BG%20articles/A13--...20We%20Play.htm

 

[surprisingly he puts the 2NT ask over pards weak 2 as #4]

 

One thing I noticed is very few people listed a defense over NT. I consider that more important than many secondary conventions (like Inverted Minors) that I see people listed.

 

 

Also, Splinters are so easy to use and so commonly used, I'm surprised not to see them higher up on peoples lists.

 

 

Last point - agreeing on signaling.

So many times I sit at a table and ask pard

"what defensive signaling do you use?

Attitude?

Count?

Suit Preference?

UDCA or Standard?

4th best leads OK?

Standard carding?"

 

And the "intermediate" doesn't know what any of that is. They assume signaling = Attitude. Thats fine as long as I am made aware of it.

Many "advanced" players don't know any of that.

 

 

 

The REAL advice to give to the intermediate player is:

 

1) learn the basic carding conventions (4th best leads, lowest from touching cards when following, basic stuff) plus basic signaling so that you can do #2

 

2) focus 100% on counting - forget 100% of anything else including card play technique

 

3) learn basic card play technique - read books like Mollos Card Play technique, Klingers Card Play Made Easy, Kelseys Winning Card Play, Mike Lawrences CDS Private Lessons 1,2

 

lastly

 

4) start with just a few conventions (say 5) and learn all the responses, not just the first round, plus how to deal with interference. 1S p 2NT (3D), ???

 

Counting, and knowing carding and basic technique will make you a much better defender than most "advanced" players, adn you will be defending around half the time.

[jillybean]

Hi jillybean2

 

nmf is normally played after a 1NT rebid(many also play it after a natural 2NT rebid)

 

4sf is used when the partnership has bid three suits.

Thanks,

I play checkback stayman and had forgotten when nmf is used. Checkback seems to have a slight advantage over nmf in that responder can show inviational or game force.

[sceptic]

Am I wrong when I claim that in most instances all those conventions appear on the profiles because the users want to impress other people?

 

I think you are wrong to be honest Roland, I think may be a better more realistic reason would be that they become more accepted on BBO as a pick up partner, in the MBC, I used to state conventions on my profile, looking for people to PRACTICE the convention with, not impress them with.

 

 

but then I am an eternal optimist

[Elianna]

Sad to acknowledge. Once again we see several persons claiming solid skill levels seems unable to understand what the intended distinction between below really is:

 

Beginner and Intermediate Bridge Discussion

For our novice to intermediate members to discuss issues and share advice (and for more skilled players to answer questions

 

and

 

Advanced and Expert-Class Bridge

Forum designated for experienced and adept bridge players to discuss more advanced topics.

If you don't like a thread, you don't have to post in it. And if you find it really problematic, you can complain to a moderator.

[awm]

While I don't consider myself beginner or intermediate, I'm involved with teaching a number of aspiring young bridge players (I help coach the UCLA collegiate bridge team). While they do have bridgebase accounts, I haven't seen any of these players posting to the forums.

 

Since a number of the beginners need my help in learning some bidding skills, and the intermediates have asked me which conventions they should learn/play, I felt it'd be useful to open that topic up to discussion. This is an area where intermediate players may perhaps have more valuable input than experts as to which conventions are useful and easy to learn. And I thought the advice of our expert players (particularly those with substantial bridge teaching experience) might be valuable to the beginner/intermediate community.

 

If the intent of this forum was that no advanced/expert caliber player, under any circumstances, should start a thread (as csdenmark seems to be implying) then my apologies. On the other hand, I'm far from the first to do so. I think this thread has substantial relevence to those wanting to learn some methods to improve their bidding.

[jocdelevat]

My intermediate opinion for what a B/I player must know

1. most important count points per team and know the points necesary for game , slam or less level bids.

2. paterns of hands

3.negative and take out doubles

4. stayman,transfer to majors, blackwood

I agree with posters that recomends first to know the basic which I still find out that some basic stuff I do not know.

I disagree with posters which suggest not to learn more than basic conventions. I think if you learn a convention it is easy after to judge the level of biding and the patern of hand. Extra of this you'll play better defense if you know what opps tallk about. For exemple I do not know polish club and precision I know a bit when I play against opps with this system I have hard time defending.

I like to put in my profile every convention I know and I think is good . Not to show but to let know advance and higher players what I play.

[Vilgan]

I started playing about a year ago... so being a "new" player is a fairly fresh experience for me.

 

Some of the comments like "just learn how to play, don't worry about conventions" are imo rather patronizing. Most conventions are not complicated, and they make the process of bidding easier rather than harder. Admittedly you don't want to start playing everything at the same time.. just keep adding something every 2-3 sessions or whatever rate makes you comfortable. However, they are not big scary complex things and serve people of ALL skill levels equally.

 

Another thing I disagree with is the comment about omg learn count. As I phased out of intermediate status, I started playing count and I LOVE it. It is incredibly frustrating now for me playing with someone who does not show count. However, (again, imo) count is something that you start doing when you feel ready for it. Its great for visualizing the hand layout/distribution of the 2 hands you can't see... but when you are still learning the game there are plenty of clues in the way people play.. signals etc, that you can usually find the right play even without knowing if declarer is 5/4/2/2 or 5/3/3/2. When you are comfortable with the game to the point that you are starting to picture the other 2 hands in your mind, then count is awesome. But when mentoring newer players who have enough on their minds already, count falls by the wayside for a good while imo.

 

Eric

[csdenmark]

If the intent of this forum was that no advanced/expert caliber player, under any circumstances, should start a thread (as csdenmark seems to be implying) then my apologies. On the other hand, I'm far from the first to do so. I think this thread has substantial relevence to those wanting to learn some methods to improve their bidding.

Certainly not - but as far as I can see most posters seems very eager to inform what they do themselves, mostly forgetting to state the reasons. In that way much posting is nothing but spam. They ought to have the skills carefully to direct their advice to the audience. When advanced+ players post in this sector they ought to try to reach out.