Pick or not?

[Fluffy]

[hv=d=w&v=n&s=s3h5d109742caj9643]133|100|Scoring: IMP

W - N - E - S

4♥-X -ps-??[/hv]

[Guest Jlall]

4N...my clubs are longer and better but this is still a 2 suiter. Partner's X has a wide range of shapes and we might have 2 more diamonds than clubs still. With equal length partner will pick clubs.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

I have a preference, and that

is clubs.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[pclayton]

My first reaction was 5♣, but 4N caters to pard having 4-2 in the minors (either way). Even though we have weak ♦'s, we'll likely have the same losers in 5♦ anyway. Its also important that pard play the hand from his side.

[HeartA]

4NT of course.

[jdeegan]

:) 5♣

 

Is 4NT really for minors? I might want to bid it as natural with:

 

Kx

AQ

xxxx

AJxxx

 

Plus, there is the possibility of RKCB.

 

Looks like a natural spot for the Orttman three way 4NT call.

[Blofeld]

The range of hands where you want to bid 4NT for the minors (or a couple of other things ... what does 4NT then 5♠ mean as opposed to a direct 5♠?) is hugely bigger than the range where you want 4NT as natural ... I'm not sure that I'd bid a natural 4NT on the hand you suggest even if it were available.

 

4NT as keycard blackwood doesn't even appear to make sense ... don't we need to have a suit in mind? Or do you think this would implicitly agree ♠s? I think if it were blackwood, then regular blackwood would make most sense -- but then it would never occur to me that it was blackwood in the first place.

 

FWIW I bid 4N rather than 5♣.

[inquiry]

4NT two places to play. This surely should not be taken as blackwood... or roman keycard blackwood.

[Winstonm]

4N...my clubs are longer and better but this is still a 2 suiter. Partner's X has a wide range of shapes and we might have 2 more diamonds than clubs still. With equal length partner will pick clubs.

Young whippersnapper stole my thunder. B)

 

The only thing I can add is that the double of the 4H should still be slightly more takeout oriented than penalty but still responder should have a pretty good reason to pull the double - good distribution is a good reason. Then it is only a matter of what to bid...here 4N as a two-suiter fits the bill.

[the hog]

4NT of course - 2 places to play. 5C = BAD bid!!

[whereagles]

I bid 4NT, as a 2-suiter.

 

Why not blackwood? Because after a preempt it's more important to find the right strain than the right level.

[Walddk]

4NT two places to play.

I agree that 4NT is a two-suited take-out, but in this case it can only be for the minors. With spades and a minor, responder will bid 4♠.

 

If the opening had been 4♠, however, 4NT over double would be (any) two places to play. Advancer should assume minors unless otherwise advised (if doubler pulls).

 

Roland

[Al_U_Card]

My problem lies in the hand that partner holds. I accept that nowadays the dbl is convertable and shows values etc. and that 4NT by pard is something else.....This leads to what the value of my hand is exactly. When pard picks D, is my hand worth more or less than before? If he continues with 5H or 5S what are my options? Convertability also means ambiguity. If Dbl was 100% either way, I have a better notion of the value of my cards....but bridge, like life, is an inexact science at best.....sigh.

 

A 6-5 with 7 losers opposite some 5 loser musclularity looks like slam is there......what about 5NT pick a minor suit slam?

[cherdano]

Trying for slam didnt occur to me. AQxx xx KQxx Kxx is a normal takeout double to me, with not too much wastage, and 5m is not cold. KQxx x AJxxx Kxx and 5m is down. Axxx x AJxx KQxx, a perfect minimum takeout double with no wastage, and no chance for 6m. Add the ♦K and you still don't really want to be in slam. Looking for Axxx Ax KQJx KQx?

[pclayton]

My problem lies in the hand that partner holds. I accept that nowadays the dbl is convertable and shows values etc. and that 4NT by pard is something else.....This leads to what the value of my hand is exactly. When pard picks D, is my hand worth more or less than before? If he continues with 5H or 5S what are my options? Convertability also means ambiguity. If Dbl was 100% either way, I have a better notion of the value of my cards....but bridge, like life, is an inexact science at best.....sigh.

 

A 6-5 with 7 losers opposite some 5 loser musclularity looks like slam is there......what about 5NT pick a minor suit slam?

If you want to evaluate this as a slammish hand (which I don't), I'd start with 4N and raise to 6.

 

5N (to me anyway) implies tolerance for spades and looks like: Axx, x, KJxx, AQxxx for instance.

[Al_U_Card]

Trying for slam didnt occur to me. AQxx xx KQxx Kxx is a normal takeout double to me, with not too much wastage, and 5m is not cold.

 

That is normal? For commiting our side to play or pay at the 4 or even 5 level? Yikes! After 1 or even 2 H...np but higher than that....call me old-fashioned but I would pass with most of your example hands.....