Gloating at Result

[AAr]

I remember a couple of years ago, I played in a tourney where many were TDs. I scored +1100 and said "I love it when I score 1100s". The opponents, which were TDs, were offended said that this is impolite behavior. I know that rude behavior is against BBO rules, so I'll ask these questions:

 

1. Is the behavior I described acceptable or really impolite?

2. Can I be blacklisted by a TD for the above behavior?

3. Would you, as TD, blacklist a player for such behavior?

4. Can I be reported to Abuse for this behavior?

 

Just wondering if what I did that day was acceptable, or did I do something that a TD has a right to blacklist me for. Is it really rude manners? I was taught manners and always try to be polite and curtious as I was taught growing up (And, prefer playing with polite playersr over impolite playes. And, I don't want any TD blacklisting me. And, I do want to abide by BBO rules, as it is a great bridge site.

 

Thanks!

[sceptic]

I think if you are with friends this may be accepatable behaviour, against people that don't know you and they don't know what kind of person you are, it could be seen as rude, they can report you and if you are seen to be rude I think someone would point this out to you first and give you a chance to change your behaviour, rather than ban you, abuse@bridgebase is managed by some one of exceptionally fair judgement

 

personally I think a lot of people are oversensitive and should really try and relax, I dislike some of the riules about what is proper behaviour in brigde, but then I feel I an in a minority here,

 

I am sure that if you never meant any offence, then that is ok, some people are just as I said before over sensitive, enjoy bridge base it is a great place with some great people in it

 

you do not seem like a rude person to me

 

by the way and TD can blacklist you for what he likes, as can any person on BBO, it is a function available to all of us

[pbleighton]

"personally I think a lot of people are oversensitive and should really try and relax, I dislike some of the riules about what is proper behaviour in brigde, but then I feel I an in a minority here"

 

I agree, but "gloating" IS a violation of bridge etiquette, and some people are very sensitive. In my early bridge days, I was reprimanded several times (once quite rudely) bit off by some of those "oversensitive" people. These people all had unpleasant but "within the lines" behavior of their own....

 

So it's better to be careful.

 

Peter

[helene_t]

My immediate thoughts are that It's not excatly polite but opps should just pretend to be grown-ups and don't make a big deal about it. If one of them happens to be your bridge teacher (or one of your parents in case you're <16) it's ok to make a remark. Otherwise just ignore it.

 

That being said, it depends on a lot of things. Your relationship with the opps (any tensions between you from the previous boards?) and the way you articulated your "gloating".

 

And the circumstances. If they sacrificed against a cold but non-vulnerable slam it's no big deal. If they had a pathetic bidding misunderstanding induced by your diabolic three-way preempt against which they had no defense, being a pick-up partnership, it's a lot worse.

[Walddk]

According to the Rules of this Site your offence is not among the serious ones, only among "bad manners". Quote:

 

"The following are examples of bad manners. You will have trouble making friends if you:

 

<snip>

 

Gloat when you get a good result and complain when you get a bad result."

 

As I read it, abuse will not get involved if you are reported.

 

Roland

[jillybean]

1. impolite

2. yes - free td's can restrict entry to their tournaments for any reason

3. That would depend how Im feeling at the time :lol: Seriously, I wouldnt ban someone for that behavior but I would try to avoid playing with or against someone who behaved like that at the table. Thats what private chat to your partner is for.

4. Yes but I'd say abuse would not get invloved.

[glen]

In ACBL Zero Tolerance gloating would likely be considered "embarrassing remarks" that would "interfere with the enjoyment of the game".

 

See: ACBL Zero Tolerance

 

Of interest is that this policy states that "Greeting others in a friendly manner" is a "commendable behavior", but "not required".

 

However in: Fall 2006 NABC Second Sunday Bulletin - see page 2 top right

 

the ZT Update column by Paul Cronin says:

When you sit down at a table and say “hello,” make sure your opponents say “hello” to you. If they ignore you and continue to discuss a previous

hand, interject politely that you would appreciate being recognized.

And then right back to this thread topic the article continues:

Don’t tolerate criticism or gloating of any kind at the table.

So given this clear statement, gloating of any kind in ACBL BBO tourneys might get the TDs on your case if they were following ZT as described in the quoted article.

[uday]

1. Is the behavior I described acceptable or really impolite?

I find it unacceptably rude. Your own mileage may vary

 

 

2. Can I be blacklisted by a TD for the above behavior?

 

The TD can blacklist you for any reason whatsoever. He may not blacklist you for being green-skinned, living in Antarctica, etc.

 

3. Would you, as TD, blacklist a player for such behavior?

Y

 

 

4. Can I be reported to Abuse for this behavior?

Yes, tho it would likely take more than a single such report before we acted.

[DJNeill]

Yet another reason one would want to see the friend/enemy status of a director on the tourney description. What if a director was too fascist or lassez-faire with the banning for your tastes? Hard to know that if the director is not logged in.

 

Dan

[csdenmark]

I remember a couple of years ago, I played in a tourney where many were TDs. I scored +1100 and said "I love it when I score 1100s". The opponents, which were TDs, were offended said that this is impolite behavior. I know that rude behavior is against BBO rules, so I'll ask these questions:

 

1. Is the behavior I described acceptable or really impolite?

I also enjoy such a score. 1100 is based on mistakes in interfering handles and those who have too little distance to what they are dealing with ought to stay away from dealing with others.

 

No matter if this was hitting opps. or myself - I normally make a comment on such. Thats normally paving the way for a lively table with good social comfort.

 

On a bad day I think I would tend to make a reprimande to your opps. for making trouble out of nothing.

[pclayton]

There's really not a reason to say anything after a +1100. Not even a "good double pard" or "nice defense".

 

I hate to say it, but you shouldn't even do it with friends. If the declarer said a wise crack, you can join in, but chances are they are pretty ticked off. Any additional comment usually results in making the situation worse.

[matmat]

There's really not a reason to say anything after a +1100. Not even a "good double pard" or "nice defense".

 

I hate to say it, but you shouldn't even do it with friends. If the declarer said a wise crack, you can join in, but chances are they are pretty ticked off. Any additional comment usually results in making the situation worse them.

I agree. though I find that sometimes it's worth it to say something like that if the opps themselves have been unnecesserily curt or rude.

[sceptic]

if opps are rude I can think of better ways to lower myself to their level than wow 1100 hahaha

[jillybean]

3. Would you, as TD, blacklist a player for such behavior?

Y

 

Idealy I would ban these people too but I've found the limited number of entries on a blacklist are best reserved for those players who tell their partners to &*(&*(&(* &()()))&^ and the 7ntxx bidders. :P

[blackshoe]

I''ve never really understood why people felt the need for a Zero Tolerance policy. We have a law (74A) which makes rudeness at the bridge table illegal. Why not just enforce the law?

 

And yes, gloating over your score would be a violation of Law.

[csdenmark]

If you are not allowed to be happy for a gift I understand nothing. Even happy expressions seems to have escalated much in sport during last 20 years and I think they still represent honest satisfaction for a positive score.

 

You are encouraged to congratulate your opps. for doing well but you are not allowed to express anything if they are doing mistakes. Very interesting.

 

I think we are human beings - and I will not accept only to be a puppet.

 

My question will now be - how about mourning for losing -1100?

[pigpenz]

In ACBL Zero Tolerance gloating would likely be considered "embarrassing remarks" that would "interfere with the enjoyment of the game".

 

See: ACBL Zero Tolerance

 

Of interest is that this policy states that "Greeting others in a friendly manner" is a "commendable behavior", but "not required".

 

However in: Fall 2006 NABC Second Sunday Bulletin - see page 2 top right

 

the ZT Update column by Paul Cronin says:

When you sit down at a table and say “hello,” make sure your opponents say “hello” to you. If they ignore you and continue to discuss a previous

hand, interject politely that you would appreciate being recognized.

And then right back to this thread topic the article continues:

Don’t tolerate criticism or gloating of any kind at the table.

So given this clear statement, gloating of any kind in ACBL BBO tourneys might get the TDs on your case if they were following ZT as described in the quoted article.

Glen:

Good luck :P

In a recent ACBL game here partner opened 2♥ in third seat my right hand opp doubled and i bid 2♠ after which partner bid 3♣ the doubler bid 4♠.

 

I started A♣ and a club hoping for shortness in partners hand at which the doubler/4♠ bidder remarked:

 

"you may know how to psyche but your defense isnt worth *****"

 

TD was called and was too busy to go over anything :(

 

Now is this ZERO Tolerance infraction?

 

I guess comments are best left to yourself :)

[glen]

My wife and I continue to get unsolicited feedback on ACBL BBO games. Today was typical - we were out playing f2f and the table conversation goes:

 

Player: Haven't see you out much here, where are you playing?

Us: Mostly online.

Player: Which site?

Us: Bridge Base Online.

Player: You should have seen the other day in a ACBL tourney. I and another player are playing against two really good opponents, and my partner goes down in a cold contract, and then questions the signalling methods of the opponents. One opponents says "it doesn't matter, the contract was cold idiot". My partner then fires right back with a nasty comment. The TD is called and kicks out both my partner and the opponent, and then assigns -4 IMPs to me, so +4 IMPs to their side. Unbelievable!

Me: Actually both sides likely got -4 IMPs, just because your side got -4 for your partner's bad conduct does not mean they got +4. *

 

* at least I hope not!

 

The good news here is that ZT was employed, which it is not always. The bad news is:

a ) TD actions are not always being communicated properly, resulting sometimes in bad feelings;

b ) There seems to be some common frustration freely expressed by participants.

 

Perhaps this is just due to the quality of our f2f club TDs around here, so that is what the TDs online get measured by. However the only way to get a measure of the degree of problem of a and b above would be to note in each tourney where complaints should be directed. This would avoid the 3-5% of the same people reporting the same problems which really doesn't get us much anywhere.

[Al_U_Card]

Do unto others.......and accept the consequences, whatever they may be but don't be surprised if those results displease you and then just learn from your mistake. ;-)

[Finch]

1. Is the behavior I described acceptable or really impolite?

2. Can I be blacklisted by a TD for the above behavior?

3. Would you, as TD, blacklist a player for such behavior?

4. Can I be reported to Abuse for this behavior?

1. To me, it's really impolite (unless against very good friends)

2/3. Blacklisting seems extreme. As a f2f TD I would suggest you apologise to your opponents and leave it at that.

4. You can be reported to abuse for anything.

 

If you were consistently unpleasant whenever you got a good result, or suggest opponents are just stupid and lucky when they get a good result, you can expect sanctions. If you are occasionally rude to people all you should expect is that some people may not want to play with you.

[pigpenz]

My wife and I continue to get unsolicited feedback on ACBL BBO games. Today was typical - we were out playing f2f and the table conversation goes:

 

Player: Haven't see you out much here, where are you playing?

Us: Mostly online.

Player: Which site?

Us: Bridge Base Online.

Player: You should have seen the other day in a ACBL tourney. I and another player are playing against two really good opponents, and my partner goes down in a cold contract, and then questions the signalling methods of the opponents. One opponents says "it doesn't matter, the contract was cold idiot". My partner then fires right back with a nasty comment. The TD is called and kicks out both my partner and the opponent, and then assigns -4 IMPs to me, so +4 IMPs to their side. Unbelievable!

Me: Actually both sides likely got -4 IMPs, just because your side got -4 for your partner's bad conduct does not mean they got +4. *

 

* at least I hope not!

 

The good news here is that ZT was employed, which it is not always. The bad news is:

a ) TD actions are not always being communicated properly, resulting sometimes in bad feelings;

b ) There seems to be some common frustration freely expressed by participants.

 

Perhaps this is just due to the quality of our f2f club TDs around here, so that is what the TDs online get measured by. However the only way to get a measure of the degree of problem of a and b above would be to note in each tourney where complaints should be directed. This would avoid the 3-5% of the same people reporting the same problems which really doesn't get us much anywhere.

Glen

my feeling is that if it says zero tolerance then it should be zero tolerance ot 1% tolerance or pick and choose tolerance.

 

maybe the real problem is:

1: some acbl bbo games are too large for the TD's

2: no real way for the TD's to see the public or private chat.

 

1: is easy to take care of have more TD's

2: is a little harder unless software can be built in too where the TD can go back in time and bring up chat at a table if necessary public or private. right now its copy and paste and hope that TD can see it, problem is the chat box doesnt allow multiple lines of chat to be put in, which is really necessary for the TD to see what has happened. Maybe a button could be made for copying chat that can be sent to the TD! :blink:

[glen]

Instead of more TDs, the BBO software needs updating to record each tourney table's chat (and discard it after 30 minutes). Based on experiences at another online bridge provider, this feature will allow TDs to quickly take action in these types of circumstances without having to spend many minutes getting players to describe (or misdescribe) how they got to a particular point.

 

Also when players know the TD can instantly see the past chat, they will tend to curtail some of their unacceptable remarks. As it is now, players know they only have small risk it will be later send to abuse, and even if it is, they might only be faced with a warning.

 

For this thread's starting example, the TD could arrive after the gloating, see the chat and quickly replace +1100 with +110 (sorry, you lose a zero), and then wait for the fireworks display :blink:

[Rain]

I remember a couple of years ago, I played in a tourney where many were TDs. I scored +1100 and said "I love it when I score 1100s". The opponents, which were TDs, were offended said that this is impolite behavior. I know that rude behavior is against BBO rules, so I'll ask these questions:

 

1. Is the behavior I described acceptable or really impolite?

2. Can I be blacklisted by a TD for the above behavior?

3. Would you, as TD, blacklist a player for such behavior?

4. Can I be reported to Abuse for this behavior?

 

Just wondering if what I did that day was acceptable, or did I do something that a TD has a right to blacklist me for. Is it really rude manners? I was taught manners and always try to be polite and curtious as I was taught growing up (And, prefer playing with polite playersr over impolite playes. And, I don't want any TD blacklisting me. And, I do want to abide by BBO rules, as it is a great bridge site.

 

 

 

1. To me, acceptable.

 

2. Yes. Any TD can blacklist you for any reason--its their tourneys, they don't need to invite you to play in their tourneys if they won't want to.

 

3. No, I would not, because to me its acceptable.

 

4. Yes. Anyone can report anyone else to abuse. Doesn't imply that action will be taken against you. Stupid reports deserve to be treated as spam.

[barmar]

I don't consider gloating to be appropriate. However, I also think it would be an overreaction to ban someone after just a single incident. But if someone does this repeatedly, it wouldn't be eggregious to take action.

[Rain]

btw acceptable to me doesn't mean I find it nice. Just acceptable.

 

I reserve the right to respond in kind.