1D-2C-2NT showing 15+

[kgr]

You play 5 card M (2/1 promises 10+ and not GF!)

If you play that 2NT by opener after 2/1 by responder is 15+ (GF) what are the disadvantages?

With a minimal hand opener has to bid:

1D-2C-2D even if opener only has a 4-card D (eg 3=4=4=2).

And then responder has to bid 2NT if he has short diamonds, even if he has no stop in one of the majors (eg with 3=3=3=4) and NT would play better by the opener.

 

Questions:

- Is it a good agreement to play 2NT by opener GF (not playing 2/1 GF)?

- Are there solutions for the issues mentioned above?

 

Thanks,

Koen

[Cascade]

If you play 2NT shows extras then you might need to rebid 2♦ with fewer than four diamonds.

 

4=4=3=2

 

1♦ 2♣

2NT

 

Having said that I like the idea of 2NT showing extras. But I don't often play SAYC.

 

This is certainly a bad auction for SAYC especially with the contradictory or inconsistent definitions of bids and rebids here:

 

1. A minimum NT rebid shows a minimum hand

 

2. Responder's 2/1 promises a rebid

[lowerline]

You play 5 card M (2/1 promises 10+ and not GF!)

If you play that 2NT by opener after 2/1 by responder is 15+ (GF) what are the disadvantages?

With a minimal hand opener has to bid:

1D-2C-2D even if opener only has a 4-card D (eg 3=4=4=2).

And then responder has to bid 2NT if he has short diamonds, even if he has no stop in one of the majors (eg with 3=3=3=4) and NT would play better by the opener.

 

Questions:

- Is it a good agreement to play 2NT by opener GF (not playing 2/1 GF)?

- Are there solutions for the issues mentioned above?

 

Thanks,

Koen

This is a good treatment after a 1♥/♠ opening. The 1♦-2♣ situation is completely different however.

 

I use the standard approach (2NT with 12-14 and 3NT with 18-19), but 3♣ is GF with support. I only have to improvise with a weak hand with club support (rebid 2NT with a semi-balanced hand or rebid 2♦ with a 5crd suit).

 

There is a better solution (by Eric Kokish):

2♦ = 5+crd F1 (can have 4crd major)

2♥ = 4-4-4-1 F1

2♠ = 4+crd ♣-support GF

2NT = 12-14 balanced

3♣ = support NF

 

All this assumes you are playing a 15-17 1NT opening.

 

Steven

[whereagles]

You play 5 card M (2/1 promises 10+ and not GF!)

If you play that 2NT by opener after 2/1 by responder is 15+ (GF) what are the disadvantages?

With a minimal hand opener has to bid:

1D-2C-2D even if opener only has a 4-card D (eg 3=4=4=2).

And then responder has to bid 2NT if he has short diamonds, even if he has no stop in one of the majors (eg with 3=3=3=4) and NT would play better by the opener.

 

Questions:

- Is it a good agreement to play 2NT by opener GF (not playing 2/1 GF)?

- Are there solutions for the issues mentioned above?

 

Thanks,

Koen

French standard uses that agreement: 1x-2y-2NT = balanced GF. The case 1♦-2♣-2NT is the exception, showing 12-14. However, some theorists have devised a fix for this: they made 2NT to show good 13-14, making it again GF. With 12-bad 13, they open 1 CLUB, even with 4♦-3♣. This isn't main stream, but has popularity among french experts.

[frito]

There is a better solution (by Eric Kokish):

2♦ = 5+crd F1 (can have 4crd major)

2♥ = 4-4-4-1 F1

2♠ = 4+crd ♣-support GF

2NT = 12-14 balanced

3♣ = support NF

 

All this assumes you are playing a 15-17 1NT opening.

 

Steven

 

An even better solution by kokish is to play weak nts and this problem does not arise:)

[awm]

Elianna and I play:

 

1♦-2♣-2♦ shows either any minimum opener or a diamond one-suiter without a good enough suit to rebid 3♦. Then responder can bid 2NT/3♣ as a non-forcing invite or bid 2M or 3♦ to create a game force. These bids (2M/3♦) are ostensibly natural, but could be on a good three-card holding in some situations. We also use 1♦-3♣ as a game-forcing jump with 13+ points and 6+ good clubs, which removes some of the game forces with concentrated club values from the equation, and 1♦-2NT as natural and game force with no four-card major.

 

We then have 1♦-2♣-"not 2♦" is natural and game forcing. This includes the 2NT call (we permit a good 14 for 2NT, and also various 4441 15+ hands, as well as 18-19 balanced) and the 3♣ raise. Our 2M bids in this auction are natural with extras (4M and 5+♦).

 

From what I've seen this is probably the best available "almost totally natural" structure. You can perhaps improve on it by assigning artificial meanings to most or all opener's rebids and applying some sort of relays, but this is obviously more memory-intensive.

[Finch]

I don't like 1♦-2♣-2NT showing a minimum balanced hand, because then there is no way for responder to invite.

 

I play different things in two regular partnerships, which have different priorities. These are both in the context that we open 1♦ on 4-4 in the minors, 1♦-2♣ is not FG, and 1♦-3♣ is natural & invitational (which is why all the club rebids below are forcing).

 

Option 1 (my preferred approach)

----------------------------------------

1D - 2C

2D = min unbalanced, NF

2H = 4441 singleton club or bal; 12-14 or 18-19

2S = 4S, 5+ diamonds, F1 (2NT/3D non-forcing, anything else FG)

2NT = 4H, 5+ diamonds F1 (3D NF anything else FG)

3C = nat NF unbalanced

3D = nat FG

3H = heart splinter or bal/2254 FG club raise (3S asks)

3S = spade splinter

3NT = 4441 15-17

4C = 55 (or 65) in the minors

4D = 64 in the minors

4H/4S = void splinter, huge hand

 

After 1D - 2C - 2H

2S = FG relay (opener describes her hand, assumed to be 12-14 bal)

2NT = NF invite opposite 12-14

3C = FG nat

3D = NF opposite 12-14

3H = heart shortage, typically 3145

3S = spade shortage, typically 1345

3NT = nat

4C = sets clubs as trumps demands cue-bidding

4D/H/S = autosplinter for clubs

 

Option 2 (a bit simpler)

---------------------------

1D - 2C

2D = any hand that doesn't fit another call F2NT

2H = 4441 singleton club (then 2NT/3D NF all others FG)

2S = FG club raise

2NT = 18-19 bal

3C = NF

3D = FG 1-loser or better diamonds

3H/3S = splinters

3NT = 2254 honours in both majors 15-17 (no, we don't open these 1NT)