Assign the Blame

[inquiry]

Now that we have fallen into several camps on this hand, we can get past the worse bid concept and deal with the problems this hand shows.

 

First, is VUL if this responder hand is not GF, how different should it bd

Second, is it right to show distributional limit raise through 1NT and it not what other strategies might be useful?

Fourth, what is the minimum and maximum hand for an unsupported 4♠ after a 1NT response and a barrage bid. Maybe some new thread to address these various issues.

[temp3600]

I'm surprised that there are so few comments about the 1S opening. If the North hand had been given as an opening bid poll, with 1S, 3S and 4S as options, I would have expected 3S to be chosen the most.

[microcap]

gwnn--- do you have a whole structure for this problem that I can look at ? thanks

[Winstonm]

I'm sure others have posted on this - I have read them but it's been a while - but I am in the camp that using a forcing NT for anything but a bad raise is a fault in the system. I would rather sacrifice the knowledge of 4-card support in order to gain the information that a limit raise is across from opener - IMO it is very much like an opening 1N in that the hand that has the ability to define within a narrow range should do so and do so quickly.

 

The other problem here it seems to me was simply lack of discussion of an auction that occurs rarely - it seems South thought 4S a bigger hand while North had other ideas - that to me is simply a misunderstanding and not an error from either.

 

But I can't help but point out that regardless of the understanding, if South had been able to limit his hand and support immediately, he would not have felt compelled to move again over 4S.

 

When this sort of semi-accident occurs at the table, I have found from my experience that it is ususally best not to speculate and simply stop bidding at a reasonable sounding contract.

[Fluffy]

4NT is the worst bid by far. Nth is under pressure and may not have bid 4S if the opps had not bid 4H. 4NT is unsympathetic to say the least - most unlike you too, Phil.

Sorry to reopen this old post being late but, I was really surprised only Ron though 4NT was worse bid, first of all is the one that makes a plus into a minus unavoidable, maybe you might win slam sometimes, but 1NT was bid to show a limit raise at most, by reopening you are being inconsistent with your previous bid (sorry phil!, ow I know it was you)

 

About the 6♦ bid, I would rather pass 5♦ than bid 6♦ with my regular partner, but only with my regular partner, I know there are some people out there who abuse 1NT with monster balanced hands, so that question is only to be discussed with phil and his partner.

 

 

EDIT: Thinking more carefully, 1NT might have been bid to show an intermediate 4♠ raise, maybe on that case you can have the rights to reopen 4♠, althou it is not very clear.

[microcap]

winstonm--you articulated my question well....so what solutions do people use to distinguish a 3 card limit raise from a 4 carder, or do you just raise immediately and not worry about it?