keylime Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Sectional, afternoon session, Saturday. MPs, white on red, dealt: KAKJxxxKT98xx The auction commences: (1♠) P (P) ? You have available the following calls: 1NT - Raptor style2C/H - natural. Bid choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 2♣ BTW, I can see arguments for either 2♣ or 2♥. I'd never consider a raptor NT with this hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbleighton Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 2C. At imps I might bid 2H. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Especially with the opponents vulnerable there is a reasonble chance I can bid 2C first and then hearts twice. Either the opponents or partner might cross me up, but that's my plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 None of the above. 2♠, Michaels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 You really play Raptor in the balance? okdokey. I wouldn't raptor with this; but 6-5 come alive so I'll bid 2♠ . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 We can't bid 2♠ as Michaels by passed hand, hence the trouble. 2nd part of question now. Let's say you bid 2♥. Opener competes to 2♠ and pard doubles 2♠. What do you do then? How would you read the double? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Dwayne, given the conditions of the system, I would bid 2H. I would not contemplate a 2C bid as the most likely game for us, if there is one, is in H not C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Is this a question of bridge logic, or an exercise in "guess the agreements?" Assuming the inability to show a strong (playing) two-suiter, I'll expect the double to indicate values. However, I am boxed in, because 3♣ could be much lighter than this. So, I'll make a wild guess and write down beside the result "discuss Michaels here later" and move on. My best guess is 3♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I would bid raptor and rebid hearts on the lowest possible level. This should show this hand or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bid_em_up Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 We can't bid 2♠ as Michaels by passed hand, hence the trouble. Why not? What else can you possibly be using the bid for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Chuck, In the passout seat, direct cuebids with us are strong hands, not 2 suited. This is part of the reason we put Raptor in; it was to cater to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bid_em_up Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Chuck, In the passout seat, direct cuebids with us are strong hands, not 2 suited. This is part of the reason we put Raptor in; it was to cater to this. Please define Raptor as used in your methods. I cant find a good definition of it anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Another name for raptor is polish NT.. it is an overcall of 1NT that shows a shorter major and a longer minor. Most treatments use it to show 4 in an unbid major, and five plus in an unbid minor. Since the opponents have bid either a minor or a major, one of the two suits are known. In this case, since they opened 1♠, the major is hearts, the minor could be either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Raptor - 1NT t/o where over a 1M opening, it shows 4 of the other major and 5 of an unknown minor. 2C - pass/correct2D - what's the major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bid_em_up Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Raptor - 1NT t/o where over a 1M opening, it shows 4 of the other major and 5 of an unknown minor. 2C - pass/correct2D - what's the major. Ok, so what is double? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Raptor - 1NT t/o where over a 1M opening, it shows 4 of the other major and 5 of an unknown minor. 2C - pass/correct2D - what's the major. I suspect this is highly inefficient. Over 1M, there is no need to use 2♦ to ask opener what his major is, give that we know it is the other major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Sorry, mistyped - got ahead of myself. 2♦ is a "good raise" in hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo81 Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Sectional, afternoon session, Saturday. MPs, white on red, dealt: 1NT - Raptor style2C/H - natural. Bid choice? 2♠ Michaels seems obvious, but since that's not an option.... Given the description of Raptor supplied in the thread, that seems like the best option to me. You can describe your hand with 2 bids (NT♥) instead of 3 (♣♥♥) If partner bids 2♣ (p/c ?) I will bid 2♥ which has to be some sort of game try - if pard bids over this I then bid 3♥. If partner bids 2♥ I raise to 3, and if partner bids 2♦ I raise to 4(♥) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Well.. i would hate to give up 1NT being balanced yuck kind of hand, as then you will not have a bid for those hand. You can always bid hands such as this. For example, you double to show general stregnth, and if partner bids diamonds, bid hearts. NP. Or you can jsut bid your suits. If I was going to play RAPTOR I would play Misho's funny kind that incorporates concept in TOP/BOTTOM cue-bid with the 4-5 concept. That is, Misho advocates using raptor with four card major and long minor, or at least 5-5 major and minor, but when 5-5 or better, at least an opening hand and the two suits are the top and bottom. So with 5H+ and 5D+ after 1♠ openeing he would never use raptor he would michaels, with 5+H and 5+minor after other minor opening, he wouldn't raptor either, he would use 2NT. As published elsewhere here, there is a variety of follow ups, where the raptor bidder shows his five card major and by impliation either an opening hand or a super good hand (not inbetween the two extremes). I guess if I was playing Misho funny raptor where 1NT showed hearts and a minor, then on follow up I would show the 5-5 type of hand by the various methods he advocates. Still, I think it is perfectly acceptable with this hand to overcall 2♥ and then bid 3♣ over their 2♠ rebid if partner didn't bid over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted November 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 K next part: After I hit 2♠ for penalty, should you pull? Does scoring matter? What should I expect if yanked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 We can't bid 2♠ as Michaels by passed hand, hence the trouble. 2nd part of question now. Let's say you bid 2♥. Opener competes to 2♠ and pard doubles 2♠. What do you do then? How would you read the double? Yes, I would over-call 2H if 2S is not available. Now, I would bid 3C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 I would run from 2 Spade doubled. I am not quite sure, what it should be, but even opposite a clear penalty double, I would introduce my hidden 6 card suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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