cnszsun Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 [hv=d=e&v=e&n=sq983hq5dq8cj9872&s=skj42haj9864d2cak]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - 1♦ 1♥ Pass Pass Pass Where can we do better? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 5 loser hand....I can really see myself doing the same at the table....:) Maybe with a 5 loser hand we need to come up with something else? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Where can we do better? Thanks Next hand, i agree with the bidding here. Unlucky they didn't reopen for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jikl Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Next Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 1H is not wrong, but perhaps we should give dbl a thought. We have the major suits and maximum for a 1-level overcall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 1H is not wrong, but perhaps we should give dbl a thought. We have the major suits and maximum for a 1-level overcall. The hand is not good enough for a X followed by 2H over a possible 2C. Nothing is wrong with the bidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 1H is not wrong, but perhaps we should give dbl a thought. We have the major suits and maximum for a 1-level overcall. The hand is not good enough for a X followed by 2H over a possible 2C. Nothing is wrong with the bidding. Did I say 1H was wrong? With a single suit hand this surely does not qualify for dbl then 2 level bid, but with majors at least dbl is an alternative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowerline Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 [hv=d=e&v=e&n=sq983hq5dq8cj9872&s=skj42haj9864d2cak]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - 1♦ 1♥ Pass Pass Pass Where can we do better? Thanks Because of all the controls, this hand is slightly better then your standard 5 loser hand. The shape is ok to double (can stand any bid from partner and short in their suit). Therefor I think double would be my choice.I admit that it is close though and that you are very unlucky they didn't compete with their 10 diamonds. Steven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helene_t Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 I'm surprised everybody agrees to bid 1♥. To me, this is a clear-cut double. Not that I would blame a pick-up partner for bidding 1♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 I have three possibilities:1. 1 ♥ 2. doubling and pasing ds weak response3. doubling and bidding Hearts later. Common sense is, that X and Hearts shows a good 18 and more, so this is out. Doubling and passing will find some nice 4-2 fits in Club, which looks quite silly. So 1 HEart is clear cut. Yes you have maximum and pd has maximum for his pass. Unluckily your opps did not rescue you with their 10 card heart fit. Bad luck. Don´t buy any lots today, wit till tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bid_em_up Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 This hand is not too weak to double and then bid hearts, imo. The fact that you have both majors would make me inclined to X at the table, IN CASE partner happens to have 4 spades. This is likely to be the only way you will find out that he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 A little unlucky the opponents were so quiet with 10 diamonds. Both N/S are maximum for their actions, but both are 100% clear playing standard methods. Even playing intermediate jump overcalls, its hard for North to find a call with his pile of quacks. Playing Overcall Structure, the hand is a maximum 2♥ call (♠+♥; longer ♥ generally). North takes a 2♠ preference and I can see South competing over a 3♦ balance. This might get North to take a positive move, but its still tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 I'm surprised everybody agrees to bid 1♥. To me, this is a clear-cut double. Not that I would blame a pick-up partner for bidding 1♥. When I used to play in holland, my experience was that people tended to play the italian way, with frequent use of ELC and lowering of the upper limit for overcalls. That might explain why the take-out seems clear-cut to you, yet it's far from it for others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 Hi, I think 1H is normal, unless you play thata overcall is restricted to 15HCP.I used to play this sytle, I learned it thatway as I started to play. In the last year the upper limit of a overcallhas risen, so ... next bord. With kind regardsMarlowe PS: If my partner would double, I would not mind, but I wont mind 1H either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 If you are going to play overcalls as strong as this, surely it makes sense to also reply on hands like the one North had. I don't see how it can be right to keep the same style for 4th hand's responses to overcalls as in "the old days" but massively change the sort of hands which make a simple overcall (rather than a double) in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 This hand is good enough to double first. You have both majors and tolerance to clubs, and decent 6-card hearts, and 16 HCP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmat Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 2H overcall in the first place. 5+H, 4+S... oh wait... non-standard method, nevermind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 My suspicion is that some of the doublers are overvaluing this hand. It looks like a bad 5-loser hand to me. Give me AKJx AKJ9xx x xx instead and I have a a lot more sympathy for double (but it would still be a clear 1H in the style I prefer). The given hand desperately needs fillers in both your suits to make it a good playing hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcphee Posted November 17, 2006 Report Share Posted November 17, 2006 While the responders hand is no so great I do not see anything wrong with bidding 1S, you do have H tolerence and some values. If partner had opened the bidding 1H I am quite sure no one would pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 If partner had opened the bidding 1H I am quite sure no one would pass. True. But 1H opening shows 12-21 HCP, while 1H overcall promises 8-16 only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 If partner had opened the bidding 1H I am quite sure no one would pass. True. But 1H opening shows 12-21 HCP, while 1H overcall promises 8-16 only. But this is no longer true. The upper level for the strength of overcalls is now generally much higher than in the past, especially on two suited hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcphee Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 It is my feeling (shared with many) the overcall shows a hand not suitable for a t/o dble and is not restricted to a limited range. The responder reacts to the overcall as though partner opened the bidding, they cue bid usually with a fit and limit values or better, you bid a new suit when you have something to offer. Making a t/o dble simply because you are able to support both majors has huge downsides, like getting forced to bid your own suit at an uncomfortable level. Poor partner is also placed in a position where they become unsure if they should compete when they have the other minor. The hand that makes the t/o dble is also under the gun when the opps pre-empt. So I will remain in the camp of an overcall being unrestricted in HCP and once in awhile will pay off for failing to reach some anti % game, or even the odd game that is sound. I will say that this does not take place that often. For myself, I think the hand shown is 100% clear cut H overcall and the companion hand is an easy 1S response. EOK would be mortified to see anyone dble for t/o. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 I believe in limited overcalls and I cannot remeber seeing a player plays this unlimited where I live. There are wondeful structures, so you can bid better and stay lower then withouts opponents bidding. So in French Standard ( and German Std. too) the limit for an overcall is 18 points. Now in this hand you have 16 HCPs versus 7 for a total of 23 even with some wasted values in Diamond but make 10 tricks in spade cause to the fit and the nice spot cards in Heart and the fact, that there are zero wasted values in the south hand. So where is the problem in staying too low? if you had act with the north hand, despite having no real shortness, no fit, no controls and not much strength, you had just hoped to find the miracle spade fit and a where strong south. No good bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 Something is wrong ... Either overcaller is too strong for 1♥ or overcaller's partner must find a response with this hand. I don't mind doubling rather than bidding 1♥ with this hand since it gets both majors into the picture. If I double then I will bid hearts later if a spade fit has not been found. It might be a bit of a stretch on some auctions but that is the price I am willing to pay to make the more flexible takeout double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted November 18, 2006 Report Share Posted November 18, 2006 [hv=d=e&v=e&n=sq983hq5dq8cj9872&s=skj42haj9864d2cak]133|200|Scoring: IMP[/hv] West North East South - - 1♦ 1♥ Pass Pass Pass Where can we do better? Thanks Do we need to upgrade(overbid) 6-4 major suited hands with 5 losers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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