ANNOUNCING BBO'S 1ST GOLD STAR CLUB

[Gerben47]

What's the point? If they want to play against each other they can just open a table or a team tournament.

[luke warm]

that's true, they can do just that... as can everyone else.. but when there's a tournament type setting, with all players in the same relative flight, there's more chance to play against a greater number of their peers.. not to mention the chance this gives addicted kibbers (like me)

[csdenmark]

What's the point? If they want to play against each other they can just open a table or a team tournament.

 

Right Gerben - that was really also my point.

 

 

• Even our http://groups.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=MyPhotos_GetPubPhoto&PhotoID=nFwAAAPIFUDp1cb6GtFc6DRCvXiOyN0hZWTOya26*wlDtjczbVBXquQ are very good bridge players they are mostly those not qualifying for the big events we often have in Vugraph.
   
  
• They mostly fail not to play according to convention cards. The http://groups.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=MyPhotos_GetPubPhoto&PhotoID=nFwAAAPIFUDp1cb6GtFc6DRCvXiOyN0hZWTOya26*wlDtjczbVBXquQ knows quite well they would have won absolutely nothing playing without convention cards. - It is simply so that all good bridge players always plays according to convention cards. It is very poor that this new club have no intensions to contribute to a better standard.
   
  
• If the http://groups.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=MyPhotos_GetPubPhoto&PhotoID=nFwAAAPIFUDp1cb6GtFc6DRCvXiOyN0hZWTOya26*wlDtjczbVBXquQ want to have me in the audience they will certainly need to act as an example for all setting the standards for auctions, information(cc + alert), play, language, comments/analysizes. - Not all from the very beginning - but the intensions for that must be there by the management of the club if this is going to be of interest to me!
  

[Rhutobello]

Hey Claus, I think you can be a bit harsh here B)

 

I also think we are shooting on the wrong people ::)

 

The founder of Top Flight have done a great job, and the partisipants will surly be great players, and I think they will be great to watch. I wish them all the luck B)

 

BBO on the other hand might have slept in the prosess.

 

A) They have not put up clear limitations for the club.

 

B)Have they asked themself:

When you take away the gold members (or a Strong group)from main club, you promote another great group of players to be the highest-ranking member of the same club. These players have had the opportunity to play against "better” opponents, but this is now taken away. They will first try to attend High Flight, if this is impossible, and there are no way they can qualify, they will start feeling that BBO give them no challenge, and may leave. This will always promote next group forward, and the same feelings will again rise.

 

C) If such a club was nessesary for BBO to promote itself, it should be done from BBO, with a board who determind who shall be member.

 

I think the founder of the club have been "very nasty" ageinst it's gold members with following statement:

Now, stars are able to bring in non-star players if they so choose. They do not have to, but they may. So, not everyone will have a star, but most will.

 

I can imagine they will be floaded with request, and favour from friends or for friends of friends and so on, and if one say no, they can always go to the next ::)

(That's why rules are important 8))

Good luck ;D

Edvin

[csdenmark]

No Edvin I am not too hard.

 

If somebody want to lift from the ground and therefore want to be admired by others - then they must live up to a standard which can be used as an example for others to be heading for. Some don't want that - I think that is the persons Fred has told about who are qualified for http://groups.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=MyPhotos_GetPubPhoto&PhotoID=nFwAAAPIFUDp1cb6GtFc6DRCvXiOyN0hZWTOya26*wlDtjczbVBXquQ but who don't want the responsibillity they feel to carry such ones. - I respect such very much.

 

Except from the missing convention cards - I can only recognize Rado as an example for others. - And Rado is normally also the only http://groups.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=MyPhotos_GetPubPhoto&PhotoID=nFwAAAPIFUDp1cb6GtFc6DRCvXiOyN0hZWTOya26*wlDtjczbVBXquQ I will watch for a longer period of time.

 

I agree with you Edvin - if this was important to BBO promotion - Fred would have handled it himself.

[doofik]

I don't quite understand the problem with forming yet another club on BBO. So it is elitist, is that anyone's problem? No one is twisting anyone's arm to kib, to join, to do anything. I find the criticism here to be of the "I don't qualify therefore let me complain". Why don't you wait and see what happens down the line before you anticipate, whatever it is that you anticipate to criticize us.

 

Lines are clearly drawn what qualifies a player to become a member of Top Flight. Just give us some credit that we know how to say "NO". None of us is able to play in Top Flight, we'd dilute the level to no end. We're doing it to give the best a chance to compete among themselves. What is the problem???

[bglover]

I notice Claus has a private club for Precision players only.

 

My, that is VERY EXCLUSIVE. I would guess 90% of the players on BBO (ok maybe 75%) couldn't be in Claus' club. I couldn't. I don't play Precision. Claus, you segregationist, how dare you start a club like this! You are polarizing BBO people. We can't join. How dare you set restrictions like that? Did you start this club to help anyone but yourself? Maybe so you would have a warm and comfy place for you to play and feel that you at least would have some like competition? Certainly it wasn't to benefit the majority of the players? I think your club is a TERRIBLE idea and should not be allowed. Why? BECAUSE I CANNOT JOIN IT.

 

Do you enjoy me villifying your club in public? No? Well, please consider what you are doing here!

 

We would all be better served if people like you, who go out and do one thing (create an exclsive club with restricted membership) and then criticize people for doing something similar, just kept your mouth shut. I have tried to respond to questions/concerns openly, honestly and politely here. You, on the other hand, have made several statements that appear to have no purpose other than to stir trouble. So, I am finding it harder to remain polite.

 

As to edvin's comment that BBO should have done this itself... They could have, and had they asked us to stop our endeavor and they would take over the reins, we would gladly have said "Sure, go ahead, you are in a better position than we are to promote the idea." No one said that, but Fred, Sheri and Uday all accepted our invitation, so I think we can safely assume they at least tacitly approve of what we are doing.

[uday]

Now, now, no fighting. Just to clarify one small point: I don't consider myself a topflight or even a "TopFlight" player. Not that I wont help 2over1 promote the club - I will , because I think it is a a good idea and might work - but even had I the ability, I'd lack the time to play.

[inquiry]

I agree that claus's tone is too negative. But Steve you could join his private club, all you have to do is be willing to learn to play precision. I mean, I don't believe he excludes anyone learning to play precision, as that is his goal... to give precision players a place to play, and learn, together.

 

Claus, like Richard has a position he likes to push. Richard likes to push HTML convention cards as the wave of the future. Claus would like to see ANY convention card filled out. I think most of his post (I havne't reread it) was a plea to get the golden boys to fill out their cc when they play, and he would not kibitz them until they do... he wants them to lead by example.

 

But I think he misunderstands gold star players. I doubt they sought the gold star, and for the most part, are not comming to the BBO to provide entertainment for Klaus or any of the rest of us, but rather for themselves.

 

As far as the gold star club, I have a) volunteered to serve as a commentator at a table if needed, B) asked a few gold star friends to join (and did not ask them to drag me as a partner), c) and hope to see it take off. On the otherhand, I have also predicted it will not really take off. There simply doesn't seem to be enough gold star members to make it feesible. Sure, you might get a few five table tourments (that will be 20 gold stars who want to play at the same time for the same amount of time). IF the gold stars are diluted with "experts" who lack stars, you might have a better chance, but then the selection criteria will produce ill-will among many... "blank and blank" expert who is an idiot got in but my friend "so and so" did not. I like the clear identity of must have a gold star to get in. Although this will put more pressure on FRED who hands them out.. (I can see Fred's email box now... "come on fred, you gave "guy1" and gold star and everyone KNOWS guys 2, 3 and 4 are way better than him but no gold star.. what is the deal????"

 

Anyway, these reservations aside, I hope like heck it takes off. I like nothing more than good competition, whether I am playing in it or watching it. And the gold star club seems an ideal shot at creating such in the BBO.

[bglover]

I apologize if my last post seemed harsh... I was trying to make a point and perhaps my anger got the better of me some... Was not my intention but it is HARD to take some of the things being said by Claus as anything but outright negativity.

 

If he doesn't like it, fine, that's his or anyone else's right. But for him to continually say it's a bad idea unless his ideas (which are idiosyncratic at best) are used and a bad idea if they are not is hurtful. Each of my teammates in this endeavor has read his posts and we were all upset by them. We three have a right to be upset. We are working very hard on a project we hope will benefit everyone on BBO.

 

To fill these pages with that sort of negativity (AND USING THAT HUGE TYPE/PICTURE THAT IS SURE TO BRING HIM NOTICE) and sit idly by was more than I or doofik could take... We are working hard to make BBO a better place for all of us strictly out of altruistic tendencies. We want BBO to thrive even more.

 

Had Claus said "Great idea... I hope you require partnerships to post cc's and alert all bids fully for specs"

he would have made same point without openly villifying what is being done.

 

It hurts when people take something that is filled with good intent and openly villifies it, I am sorry. There was absolutely no need for that.

[DrTodd13]

I think that there already is an elite community on BBO. It

doesn't have a name but it exist. Sometimes they are nice

enough to let me peer through a window at them. The

folks on the inside know each other. Beyond the gold stars

which is obvious, the gold stars know who the good non-stars

are. I'm sure the gold stars want the finest quality partners

and opponents and wouldn't be on BBO if they weren't

already getting that.

 

I'm with Ben. I have nothing against anybody's free association

but I don't think this club will take off. There aren't enough

gold stars. So, I'm just wondering. The purpose of the gold

star was for kibitzers to know who to watch. I think the stars

are serving their purpose well; we can all find a good table to

watch. The purpose of this club seems to be for gold stars to

find great tables to play at. I haven't heard any gold star state

here that that has been a problem. Even if it is a problem, then

assigning gold stars a new label, (i.e., members of the TopFlight

club) won't seem to help the problem. If you have sufficient

density of gold stars then you will find great tables.

[doofik]

In as much as you're right that there appear to be cliques of players on BBO, they're not organized to allow them a tourney among themselves only. I think that to do that, there has to be some kind of a semblance of an organization. That's the purpose of Top Flight.

 

We seem to be growing by leaps and bounds. Players who have not played much on BBO have been coming out of the woodwork to join which says one thing to me, the idea is good. How it develops further, we will have to wait and see.

[bglover]

The whole purpose to this (beyond bringing more star players to BBO) is to provide an avenue for these people to practice against several opponents of similar abilities rather than just one pair.

 

We will be quite satsified if we draw a minimum of 4 pairs per tourney (that's a team match). The members can be sure when they log on at an appointed tourney time to find a few or more stars at BBO and can be sure they will have an opportunity for good practice time against varied opponents.

 

Hopefully, word of the concept will spread to other players at other sites, bringing BBO new star-worthy players who wish to avail themselves of the opportunity to play in this sort of competition and there will be growth that way.

 

We are prepared, as I stated earlier, to invite in non-star players of worthy accomplishment if the roster is not large enough to sustain ongoing matches of at least 4 tables. We recognize that might be necessary but hope that it is not.

 

If we need to go that route, we will consult with our members to ask which BBO players who do not have stars already should be invited in. We know we need a "critical mass" of people for it to work.

[csdenmark]

Trying to hit 'The Precision Team Bridge Club' on BBO you are simply trying to hit the wrong target.

 

This club is open to anyone applying for membership. Nothing required except to press the button on BBO. Then I add all to memberlist. That story is really no longer than that - except maybe I know of a few not playing and not knowing any Precision versions and with no intensions to learn or to play that system. As long they want to be members themselves they can stay as members - no problem.

 

That club is completely open - in fact it started without any knowledge of what a BBO-club was. We hoped to be able to organize invitional tourney's there. But in fact the club-function on BBO right now cannot produce very much. Therefore you in another thread may have noticed a long list for wishes to the coming next update of BBO. Even restrictions for pair tournaments was a feature added later to the client than the club was started.

 

I blame you and the 3 others rightfully I think. I blame you not to take the http://groups.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=MyPhotos_GetPubPhoto&PhotoID=nFwAAAPIFUDp1cb6GtFc6DRCvXiOyN0hZWTOya26*wlDtjczbVBXquQ under your wings telling them they must now meet the responsibility their http://groups.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=MyPhotos_GetPubPhoto&PhotoID=nFwAAAPIFUDp1cb6GtFc6DRCvXiOyN0hZWTOya26*wlDtjczbVBXquQ gives them and which one they have chosen themselves to carry. - And then show them a way to do so!

 

I really don't care about the club itself. It is not of my concern. But of course I wonder how you can be able to open a private club with the solely intension to use it as a tool for restriction of tournament-entry. Others have been deprived that right we all know - and also Fred has earlier expressed himself regarding that kind of using the private club facility.

[fred]

 

I really don't care about the club itself. It is not of my concern. But of course I wonder how you can be able to open a private club with the solely intension to use it as a tool for restriction of tournament-entry. Others have been deprived that right we all know - and also Fred has earlier expressed himself regarding that kind of using the private club facility.

 

You are correct that we do not allow people to

create clubs solely for the purpose of restricting

entries to tournaments.

 

Most likely I did not read the e-mail from Ece that

asks me to create the topflight club carefully

enough or I would have raised this point with her.

 

In any case, the club has been created now and

the managers have been trying to promote it so

I am not going to close the club.

 

Hopefully when the new version comes out (soon)

people will not have to use clubs in this manner

as there will be a lot of new and powerful ways

to restrict tournament entry.

 

At some point we will probably purge a bunch of

existing clubs in which nobody plays.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[csdenmark]

 

Claus, like Richard has a position he likes to push. Richard likes to push HTML convention cards as the wave of the future. Claus would like to see ANY convention card filled out. I think most of his post (I havne't reread it) was a plea to get the golden boys to fill out their cc when they play, and he would not kibitz them until they do... he wants them to lead by example.

 

But I think he misunderstands gold star players. I doubt they sought the gold star, and for the most part, are not comming to the BBO to provide entertainment for Klaus or any of the rest of us, but rather for themselves.

 

 

YES Ben - I want to see the original intensions of the http://groups.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=MyPhotos_GetPubPhoto&PhotoID=nFwAAAPIFUDp1cb6GtFc6DRCvXiOyN0hZWTOya26*wlDtjczbVBXquQ to be fulfilled. I want to see they act with dignity to the sign they have asked for themselves. They get no http://groups.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=MyPhotos_GetPubPhoto&PhotoID=nFwAAAPIFUDp1cb6GtFc6DRCvXiOyN0hZWTOya26*wlDtjczbVBXquQ unless they have asked Fred for it. As far as I remember Fred has informed they even need to send their credentials.

[the hog]

Personally I think that if more top players join and play on bbo as a result of this, then it has to be a good thing. Wtp?

[bglover]

It's just that simple... why some of these remarks have upset me. There shouldn't be a problem for anyone.

 

Thx Ron

[ecepal]

HI ALL

I tired to keep it quiet so far but what i am seeing is

bunch of kids!!!!

CDenmark I will answer you with your own LOGO

"IF IT IS WORHT DOING IT DO IT"

SO my dear fellow BBO user.. Me and MY friends Steve ,Doofik we are doing it...

That is very pity coming someone who I have never seen

playing on "common" lobby to all members....

Will say no more I believe some of us has bigger ego than the others..

I am still positive and thank all of you with all your critisism

although most of them are very presumptious...

these only gives me more desire to make it a success.

ece

[luke warm]

it seems simple to me... the concept should serve the purpose for which it was created - to help bbo grow... it should have a 'pebble in the pond' effect.. more world class players equals more who want to watch (and learn) equals even more, etc etc

 

i'm all for it, and for the life of me i can't understand why anyone would be against it

[Rhutobello]

First let me again say that the club is fine, the founders have done a great job and so on B) B) (and it is from my heart!)

 

The reason for me to respond this time is for those of you that promote no problems.

 

I know that I will never will reach advance level in bridge, because I have never time to study or to play therfore the club will never be any goal for me!

 

On the other hand I am fond of BBO, and it is BBO that I fight for, taken from the way I see it.

 

If we all say halleleluja, BBO don't get any thoughts that might help them on the next crossroad.

 

So you can be for something or ageinst it, that is both good, and give your thoughts, but DON*T say there are no problems, because problems will there always be, one way or another.

Just look to beg-int club, just look to all discussion about who are an expert, who are not.....Feelings are strong forces!

 

Agein Good luck :D

Edvin

[doofik]

Hello Edvin:

 

Just read your post and thought I'd try a reply so please bear with me.

 

Top Flight is meant to simply give World Class players a chance to play together, to test against the best. And you're right, there will be problems as already people who never knew that I exist (I don't know how that happened ;D) are greeting me as if I were a long-lost buddy. The idea of Top Flight is simple, either you're worthy of a gold star in the BBO value system or you're not. And as such, if you agree to join Top Flight, you get the right to nominate A PARTNER to play with. To date, we've been able to attract World Class players who don't even come to BBO. We will see how much time they'll be able to devote to playing. Refusals we've gotten have been due to time constraints; everyone we've approached has been thrilled with the idea. I hope that says volumes.

 

Jola

[keylime]

Jola,

 

You are hearby decreed "long-lost buddy" of BBO. B)

 

Anyone know how much one of those nametags cost?

[doofik]

Well, we held two events for Top Flight. Steve got his wish, we had 4 pairs in each event. The evening one drew over 80 kibs - of course, Eric Kokish and Beverly Kraft played against Bruce Gowdy with someone named sfr. At the other table demilton played with Stan against val22 and Solange. It appeared that everyone was having a good time, both the players and the kibs. An expert commentary was provided by Bob McPhee, thank you Bob:-)

 

In the afternoon the frequency was much lesser even though the quality was there as famus with syra competed against Tiger_ with kapitanski. At the other table, smispi with ollina played against ppilot and szu. Again a great time was had by all.

 

Look forward to seeing more players and kibs at Top Flight matches and tourneys.

[dogsbreath]

I wish you success with the Gold-Star club .. as Ron says ..what's the problem?.. will be pleasant to have quality games to watch occassionally.