bglover Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 TOP FLIGHT"Where BBO's Elite Meet to Compete" ANNOUNCING BBO'S 1ST CLUB EXCLUSIVELY FOR WORLD CLASS PLAYERS We are proud to announce the opening of the first intenet bridge club designed especially for world class players only! This club is only open to BBO Gold Stars! The new TOP FLIGHT Club has been developed with you, the world class player, in mind. As a member, you will have the opportunity to play regularly scheduled tournaments online against other world class players. For the first time, you will be able to use an online facility to simulate the rigors of real Super Flight tournaments on an ongoing basis. TOP FLIGHT is the perfect place to try out new systems on different opponents or just get quality practice in for that next big match with your favorite partner. TOP FLIGHT affords you the opportunity to play round after round of world class bridge against different world class competitors on a regularly scheduled basis. Because membership is strictly limited to the very best players the world has to offer, you will be able to finally use the internet as a real tool to practice and compete against various opponents of a similar caliber. There are no fees for joining. All you need to do to become a member is tell one of the club managers (2over1, Ecepal, Doofik or Slothy). Chances are, your favorite partner has been invited also. If he or she has not, please let us know. The only thing we ask is that you actually play our tourneys. (Because TOP FLIGHT is a players club, people who do not use it may be asked to leave to make room for a new member.) Since its your club we want to make sure you have a great TOP FLIGHT experience. Feel free to make suggestions so we can help make TOP FLIGHT the place you want to play. Sincerely Steve (2over1), Jola (doofik), Alex (slothy) and Ece (ecepal) P.S. When responding please include your BBO user name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkson Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 ANNOUNCING BBO'S 1ST CLUB EXCLUSIVELY FOR WORLD CLASS PLAYERS Isn't a bad news for kibitzers ? I noticed that kibitzers can't kibitz BBO private clubs. I hope I am wrong,but I tried and failed. If you succeed we won't be able to kibitz BBO word class players any longer.For me it would be a great pity.So our interests fight with yours. Erkson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bglover Posted December 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 You could not be more wrong. The private club area indeed does not allow kibbers in without permissions but there is absolutely no requirement that tourneys be run in the club room. BBO's sofware allows us to run our tourneys in the regular area and restrict entries to ONLY club members. Members may run their own private tourneys either in the club area or openly, but all TOP FLIGHT events that the managers run will be in the open area. We view TOP FLIGHT as a way to promote BBO to the rest of the Bridge world and would never run our tourneys in such a way as to deprive the rest of the public from seeing our players in action. That would be, in a sense, self defeating. We probably will turn off kib chat to the table, but I think you can understand that is a wise decision. We wouldn't want stray comments hitting the table. Thank you for allowing me to correct a misconception that you (and perhaps others) have. You are misinformed so let me assure you we welcome kibbitzers and hope they will help us spread the word about the great opportunity TOP FLIGHT will afford them in watching the world's best compete on BBO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erkson Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 ...all TOP FLIGHT events that the managers run will be in the open area. I am happy to read that. We probably will turn off kib chat to the table, but I think you can understand that is a wise decision. We wouldn't want stray comments hitting the table. Yes, I think that it is a wise decision. Good luck to the new private club. Erkson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bglover Posted December 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 Thank you for allowing me to clear up a misconception that perhaps others had as well. Although the announcement only went out 10 hours ago, already we have received a large number of responses that has included some of the top partnerships in the world. We are truly excited by this concept and the potential it has to create a new experience for both BBO members and the players themselves. Perhaps new world class partnerships will be formed here on BBO in front of our own eyes. Certainly kibbitzers can expect to see, on an ongoing basis, some of the best bridge being played in the world at that very moment. Everyone benefits. The players; the spectators and BBO too. It's all good. I hope you all come join us, either as players (if you qualify) or as spectators. A good time will be had by all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 Steve, I would like to join, but I feel not very comfortable with the possible timing of the tourney. I joined Abalucy club but managed to attend twice only, coz most of tourney are held in midnight time for players from europe. I hope you guys can take this into account. Thanks very much. hongjun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecepal Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 sure we do flytoox,that is why we have few directors grabbed to serve this purpose:)))me and slothy will organise European times))steve and doof will take care of USA time))I hope this will be satisfactory))ecepal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csdenmark Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 I really wonder what the purpose of this club is? [tt]When top-players plays in ordinary tournaments they normally don't come on top far ahead but mostly in best half of the field. This means ordinary players are able to offer good competition even to the top players. Today kibitzers are offered top class bridge and top class mistakes as well in Vugraph each month - and more of that likely to come. Today kibitzers are missing 'Friday night training with Rado'. That weekly show offered excellent entertainment, good bridge and explanations.[/tt] Instead of the proclaimed agenda for TopFlight I would have been happy to see the aims to be: Top class standard for convention cardsTop class standard for alertsTop class comments from good players knowing the players own systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bglover Posted December 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 Top Flight is not directly associated with BBO. We are an independent club that is striving to bring great players and great kibbitzing opportunities to our beloved site. Therefore, Claus, no BBO resouces are being used to run Top Flight beyond the normal tourney facilities. Although we sincerely hope that Fred, Uday and Sheri participate in our events, the club itself is not theirs. The managers of Top Flight are doing this to help promote good bridge on the internet and BBO as well, but we are in no way directly affiliated with BBO. Thank you for allowing me to clarify this point. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 i think it's a great idea, and i think the ones running it are all good choices... i did have one thought tho... you might want to look into having available gold stars (those who for one reason or another can't play in any specific tourney) provide commentary i realize it's a chore for players to do this, and i can certainly understand someone declining, but it would surely attract even more attendance imho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 When top-players plays in ordinary tournaments they normally don't come on top far ahead but mostly in best half of the field. This means ordinary players are able to offer good competition even to the top players. That is certainly one possible explanation, however, I think it far more likely that the variance in the "normal" tournaments is great enough to overwhelm the skill advantages of the stronger players. My own experience in open tournaments suggests that there is a strong element of luck involved. It is very important to note that the standard format used for tournaments is one large section. This format is notorious for maximizing the role that luck plays. If you draw the "right" pairs, you're going to get a good score. If you draw the wrong pairs, you'll need to fight for your scores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bglover Posted December 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 I love the commentary idea and we do hope that members not playing that nite show up and kib... However, I am not going to ask people to commit to commenting. But I do hope they choose to. Keep in mind that there are going to be several tables running if it is not a team match... So We would need several commentators as well. Now, there are many people on BBO, such as CSIjak, who comment for VG shows but do not have gold stars. Perhaps they would like to add comments when tourneys are going on. Certainly if I am not directing I would be glad to help in doing commenting (and cracking jokes) but I don't know if I can promise we will have commentary. Best guess is that enough tables will draw enough kibbies that it is likely there will be good commentors following different pairs and that the commentary will naturally arise out of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted December 13, 2003 Report Share Posted December 13, 2003 that works, as does having one or more per table for as many as you have.. yeah i know it's a pain for them to do that, so it'd definitely have to be voluntary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishovnbg Posted December 14, 2003 Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 Hi Steve! I like the the idea, will be nice to kibitz there! I have a suggestion. Can you menage to allow temporary the 1 place winers from BBO tournaments between any top fight tournaments? Fresh and fire blood mixed with old and reasonable one can do wonders! I also think in same case at profile on such contestants must be written something like: "Winer of BBO tourney", I dont know, may be also which one. If such pair won 1 place at your tourney, after analysis of their play, they can be invited for next one. May be need also limitation for tourneys, say at least 8 boards and not teams. Misho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhutobello Posted December 14, 2003 Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 Congrat with new club. Now we have one in the bottom (beg-int) and one in the top. The one in bottom I can understand, because it has spesefic goal to make better players. The one in top, I am not so sure of. Will we maybe see the start of click gathering? Boundery coming up here and there. Who is next out? Advance players? We have an old children song, that goes..sorry for you:You can't play in our garden and so on.. I am maybe a bit harsh here, and I am maybe not fully awear how the club will work, but I am awear that if you start to make restrictions, other want to have some too, and the more you split up the community, the less community it becomes, and more like our world, with all the clever plans to keep things gooing.(I am not ref to last event) But hopfully I am wrong. Will the club just be used for starting points for tournys- team match, then ok. I still hope to see some of you in the main bridge club:) Edvin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted December 14, 2003 Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 Congrat with new club. Now we have one in the bottom (beg-int) and one in the top. The one in bottom I can understand, because it has spesefic goal to make better players. The one in top, I am not so sure of. ~~snip~~Edvin hi edwin... i can only speak for myself, but i personally love to kib good players... it'd be the same at a major chess event, any golf event, etc, where pros play... it's a learning experience... as for cliques, they already exist :( ... but that's ok too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bglover Posted December 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 Well, Edvin, if the only time these people spent were playing our tourneys they wouldn't be getting much practice time in. But, Top Flight will offer our members to spend SOME of their practice time simulating the rigors of what they can expect in f2f competitions. Think about this: Most people set up a table with their partner and play 20-25 hands vs. one set of opponents. This is fine but doesn't really go far enough. If you are here to practice your game (as opposed to playing for fun or friendship) wouldn't you be better served playing against several opponents? Sure you would. Now, the best players are significantly better usually than average players. If they want to come to BBO to practice, they must create a table and find one competitive pair. Since the better players know one another (many are friends with each other) this may not be a problem, but the entire practice time will likely be spent against just that one pair only. Sure, they could enter one of the many BBO tourneys open to the general population, but that isn't really good practice. The competition is too variable. Top Flight tourneys will give them a chance to use their practice time more efficiently. If things go as we expect, Top Flight will give the better players even more reason to come to BBO to play. That means you will have even more "stars" here on a regular basis to potentially play with even on days we are not running tourneys. You can certainly argue that all clubs are polarizing to a certain extent, but our club will be relative small. Even if it does not turn out that we attract more star players to BBO (and it would surprise me if we do not) we will CERTAINLY draw more people here to watch our tourneys. That means you will have even more people to play with. I guess anyone can find a reason to complain about anything. It saddens me that people might try and take something like this-- meant as a way to promote BBO to the bridge world and to help attract even better players here-- and attach some hidden evil meaning to it. But, in the main, the response, both from the star players, and from the general population, has been enormously positive. It is too bad it isn't unananimous, because I truly believe everyone will benefit, but ultimately I guess the proof will be in the pudding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhutobello Posted December 14, 2003 Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 Agree with you, but that is not what I had in mind:) If you look at the headline, it announce "gold star club" If the requerment is clear. You have to be a gold star to attend, then ok! But it seams that an advance player (not personly attac on any) at least are member of this club. What about those >1000 equal or better players?Who will judge them. From another thread have Fred himself said that he will not stand judge on people on this level. Who can, and with it give a good an solid rejection of a membership. I have kib several "gold star", that has adv players as regular partners. What if they want to attend? Shall they be valued, or just let in? There are many questions here, and the only reason I ask them is that it can be many hurt feelings, and in my opinion a lot of discrimination. If other then "gold Star" can attend, state so..give spesefic info about what criteria you need to have in order to aply (don't be afreid..I am beginner/int:)), or just call it Mine friends club and give your own criteria 8) On the other hand I might have missunderstand the whole thing ::( Edvin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bglover Posted December 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 Well, the title says it all... It is for gold stars. We did not make a determination who deserved one and perhaps a few people with gold stars should not have them... That is not for us to decide. If they have a gold star (i.e., in the eyes of BBO they have a significant accomplishment that makes them noteworthy) then they are eligible to join. We did not set the "gold star" criteria, we simply assume that if someone has one they are (or should be) one of the best players on BBO. Now, stars are able to bring in non-star players if they so choose. They do not have to, but they may. So, not everyone will have a star, but most will. If it turns out we need more members to have tourneys, then perhaps we will have to allow in non star players. We haven't gone this far (honestly we hope we do not have to-- between invited guests and the people they bring with them we hope to have enough players), but if we do open it up, the only players who would get in would be players who have also some sort of significant success in the world of bridge. Heck, I can't play in the club and I'm a fair player. But I am not a gold star and the biggest thing I ever won was a few regionals. None of the founders can play (maybe fill out a table in desparation). So, the criteria is "strict" but that criteria, in a sense, was set by BBO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bglover Posted December 14, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 Just a happy note: I have been talking to some of BBO's better commentators and have mentioned that we would love it if they joined in and did it at our tourneys. So far, everyone has said they would enjoy the opportunity very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallway Posted December 14, 2003 Report Share Posted December 14, 2003 Steve & Team From the opposite end of the bridge playing spectrum I wish you every success in your endeavours. If the general membership take pause and think about the opportunity your efforts (and believe me it is going to take effort ) can provide for them they too will see that TOP FLIGHT can /will add a WHOLE NEW DEPTH to all that BBO makes possible for the world wide bridging community. I am sure that the Beginner Intermediate Lounge membership will become avid Kibitzers - mind you it is my desire that they become GROUNDED in the BASICS before aiming to take FLIGHT ********* Just a quick word to the wise :- "the title says it all ......it is for Gold Stars" hmmmmm well I too thought my Private Club's Title of Beginner Intermediate Lounge said it all ! - it has been suggested that I should change it to "Bridge Under Construction" - the door is in splinters thanks to the rampaging hoard of NON beginner intermediates who have battered their way through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bglover Posted December 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 Thank you for your kind words Maureen. We appreciate it. I can honestly tell you that I have had an exhausting last few days. I lacked many email addresses, many more were wrong and many emails never went through. It has taken a lot of work to get people aware of the club, although once they have heard about it the response has been nearly universally positive. There is much much more work to be done. We haven't contacted even half of BBO's stars yet. But we are confident the efforts will pay off. I would like to take this oppourtunity to make a special thanks to the people we have recruited to speak with foreign- speaking stars on our behalf. Farfie and Ritong spoke to the French Stars for us and Rado has been handling the Bulgarian Stars. We have just recruited an Italian but his name now escapes me. Without these people we could never accomplish our goal. Jols. Ece and myself are more grateful than they could even imagine. A hearty thanks to them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 OK, I am going to stand up and be heard here. I 'm hearing a lot of "concern" and "worry" that this club will be too exclusive. I strongly disagree with this notion. Even hinting at it, considering the dynamics involved with the potentially divisive personalities involved - not kosher, not fair, not being truly honest with the people. I firmly believe that this club is a great addition to the BBO community, and if it adds to us, then I will eagerly support it. The elite in order to properly prepare, must face the elite. Furthermore, a lot of the time the best open a table, they get the thrings of kib'ers, and guess what - the kib'ers blurt out the characteristics of the hand. That does not protect the field or the integrity. I frankly want the elite to have a private place to cope with the numerous different approaches that they will face - realize, they are people too, they do learn, even though they are light-years ahead of me. Thusly, they need a protective environment in order to make the mistakes just like we do, and learn from them. Lastly, the pros, they will still play in the lobby, rest assured. We have no reason to feel shorted or cheated out - they will still come out, play bridge, laugh and cry with the rest of us. Fear not, this sub-community is a GREAT thing, and I wish it only the very BEST. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 I am all for it, in fact it must be a fabulous, wonderful club, simply because it excludes people like me. It was Groucho Marx who phrased my view of this gold star club perfectly.... when he said, "I do not care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members" Of course should someone go insane and slip up and put a gold star by my name, then well, to heck with Groucho...I would say sign me up.... hehehe Good luck Steve and all. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badderzboy Posted December 15, 2003 Report Share Posted December 15, 2003 As a beginner / intermediate - I think this club can only be a great thing for BBO. It is an honour to watch a table with one Gold star but the opportunity to watch a table of 4 says it all. We get the opportunity at Vugraph events to watch World class players when the opportunity arises but the tournaments will allow us to do this MORE frequently and also to attract more World class players to what must rate as the top place to learn and play bridge across the world. BBO has given the thirst to learn to this challenging game and I believe this club will insipre far stronger players to acheive even greater heights. Those who are worried by the exclusivity - How many would play with a table of Gold stars now to match their skills? I wish all the best of luck in this venture and look forward to kibbing a tournament soon and who knows in 2020+ I might even play there lol :-) Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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