roghog Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 Hi folks. So the auction goes: You LHO Pard RHO1♥- (3♦) -4♣-(Pass)4♥-(Pass)-4♠ How do you play a high-level new suit like the 4♠ here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 natural and forcing: 'normally' 5-6 in the blacks, good hand. How else to bid AKxxx x x AQJxxx? Might be great 4=6 in blacks: AKJx x xx AKJ10xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 I play it differently than mikeh does and would consider it to be a Q-bid in support of ♥ and most likely Hx in support since I didn't bid ♥ right away and since the 4♥ bid could have been made on a mediocre 6 carder stuck for a bid over 4♣. The monster black hands mikeh mentions can be bid with a neg x followed by a free bid at a high level. I certainly won't claim that the 4♠ Q bid method is best, however. .. neilkaz .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 The best use could be kickback, but without discussion it is not. Inthis case, it is a cuebid supporting hearts. I think without discussion, you have good clubs, no interest in 3 NT, and a hand too good to settle in 4 Heart, so this could well be more then just Hx in Hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echognome Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 Put me down in the natural and forcing camp. These are cramped auctions but I cannot imagine that 4♥ sets the suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 The monster black hands mikeh mentions can be bid with a neg x followed by a free bid at a high level. That is unplayable. Negative doubles of preempts get left in a non-trivial number of times, so using the negative double on gf, slam oriented two suiters is very, very silly. And it is silly for more reasons than that. Imagine double followed by 5♦ with partner saying either pass or double, and you hold a huge two-suiter: your bid. There are other problems, but these two are the most glaring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Hi Mike, If you once in your live have the auction 1♥ (3♦) in front of you AND you have a Game forcing hand with 56, you can surely find a way to handle it. Maybe with 3 ♠ followed by 6♣ or so. And if you use neils way and double and this is left, you can be sure of a juice profit in a potential misfit hand, as pd surely has around 9 cards in the red suits. I think, that I will be dealt a hand with Heart support and SI more often then a hand with 11 black cards, so I better have my bidding working in this area.If 4 ♠ is not supporting Hearts, you have a real problem with SI and Heart Support. What else can you bid?4 NT KC without knowing if there is a wide open suit?5 Club shows your suit5 Diamond shows a Diamond control. What about the spade control?5 Hearts asks for good trumps? Or for Diamond control? You can avoid this problems, if 4 Spade shows SI in HEartsand a spade control.Now 4 NT promieses all suits stopped, 5 Diamond shows a Diamond control but nothing in spades and 5 Heart is open for whatever you want. So, if you accept, that your bidding with 11 black cards is getting worse, you make your bidding with a heart fit much better. Seems to be with the odds for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blofeld Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 You have three bids (4NT, 5♦, 4♥) to show slam interest. Why add another one and make a natural hand (not so rare as you imply, I think) unbiddable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 You guys have convinced me that this should be natural on this cramped auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 I also think it should be natural, but I'm less convinced it is completely forcing.If I have slam interest with heart support I showed it last round.Partner's 4H rebid didn't really show anything extra in the way of heart length - what was he supposed to bid with some horrible hand such as AJxAKQxxxxxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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