easy or hard to reach slam

[sceptic]

Hi all Just wanted some opinions on this hand please

 

[hv=d=e&v=a&n=sjt4hqt42dq8632c7&w=sk65h763dk4cakj52&e=saq92h9dajcq98643&s=s873hakj85dt975ct]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

West North East South

 

 -     -     1♣    1♥

 2♥    3♥    3♠    Pass

 4♠    Pass  Pass  Pass

 

 

I am west if that makes any difference

[zasanya]

4♠ doesnt seem right P is almost certainly void/singleton in ♥.

4♣ instead of 4♠ IF it will be construed as game force/auto rkc.If it is not a game force then 4♥ followed by 5♣.If P bids 5♣ himself bid 6 hoping P has singleton and you are not missing 2 aces.

[whereagles]

Bidding is fine. Bit of a gamble, but ok. Play's the thing.

 

On the lead of heart AK, the correct play is to ruff, draw 2 rounds of trumps, and play on clubs. Opps make 1 heart and 2 trumps. Textbook stuff on trump control, eventhough it leads to a mere 10 tricks when 12 would be available with reckless play :)

[paulg]

I disagree that the bidding is fine, but a lot depends on the meaning of the 2♥ bid.

 

In SAYC the cue bid is explicitly defined as a general game force with no clear direction, often made with support. Some people play it as a good raise to 3♣ or better.

 

Whatever the cue bid means initially, partner's 3♠ bid must show four spades and longer clubs in a good hand. With the opponent's sounding like they have nine hearts between them, a singleton in partner's hand will make a club slam likely and so you need to alert partner to this.

 

If the cue bid is game forcing, then you can bid 4♣ and start cue bidding. This will get you to 6♣.

 

If the cue bid is good raise or better, then you may be concerned that 4♣ is non-forcing - it should be forcing but it may still be a concern (!) - and then I'd suggest a 4♦ cue bid. This will also get you to 6♣.

 

As others have said, you do not really want to play in a 4-3 fit when the long trump hand will get forced on heart leads. Generally this is something you want to avoid anyhow.

 

I guess that you were unsure that the 3♠ bid promised clubs and points. There are a couple of clues to this - firstly you have not promised spades (you could have doubled), so partner must have good values to introduce the suit. Partner should not be balanced - aside from the known heart shortage, a good balanced hand may well double first. And if unbalanced, then must have clubs.

 

Finally, i guess the only real concern is that partner could be a weakish 5-6 hand and you'll have two diamond losers. Luckily partner will bid 4♠ over 4♣ with this hand.

 

Paul

[inquiry]

Slams are always difficult to bid when you hide five card support to the AKJ in your partners suit. There is a saying that many people like, which is "support-with-support". This is especially true in competition.

 

So the first question you have to ask, is did your 2♥ show ♣ support? If the answer is no, then you can be 100% certain this auction is wrong. So the question of this hand is the meaning of 2♥. If it promised ♣ but not game force value, then you can not risk a 4♣ bid over over 3♠, as that would not be forcing. If it WAS game force, you can afford 4♣. Assume for a minute it was not game force, you should bid 4♦, and this should be forcing, and show support for one of the two suits.

[bearmum]

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

2H is fine, since for most players, 2H shows

a strong club raise, i.e. at least inv., but you

may play something more fancy.

 

3S would than show add. values and a spade

stopper, and it would also deny a heart stopper.

 

I am not 100% sure, if 4C would be forcing

to game for most, but it would for me, so 4C

be it, and you said, you are sitting West ...

=> 4D, 4S (cues, showing willingness

to cooperate) => 6C.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[sceptic]

as 1 club opener could be 3 clubs, I assumed 2heart cue shows clubs as a suit and good values certainly forcing one round,

 

I have no idea of 3nt or 4 of a mjor is the place to play, as I am quite prepared to put myself or my p in 4/3 fits frequently

 

I took the 3 spade as asking for a heart stop which I never had, so I showed a spade support and pard was ok to take us to a club game if he had nothing but a spade stop, I would have x'd the heart over call if I had 4 spades earlier

 

Wont be the first time I am wrong

[HeartA]

as 1 club opener could be 3 clubs, I assumed 2heart cue shows clubs as a suit and good values certainly forcing one round,

 

I have no idea of 3nt or 4 of a mjor is the place to play, as I am quite prepared to put myself or my p in 4/3 fits frequently

 

I took the 3 spade as asking for a heart stop which I never had, so I showed a spade support and pard was ok to take us to a club game if he had nothing but a spade stop, I would have x'd the heart over call if I had 4 spades earlier

 

Wont be the first time I am wrong

When East was voluntarily bid 3S, he was showing 4+ (usually 4 only) spades and unblanced hand, which implies longer clubs. You should certainly bid 4♣ which is forcing IMO since you cue-bid in the previous round.

 

There is a misconcepture about 1C opening among beginners and intermediate players. Since 1C guarantees 3 card only, they don't think further about the length of clubs after the bidding develops (not explicitly emphasize the length of clubs though).

[kenberg]

Even if the 2H cue bid does not explicitly show clubs, the cue bidder will almost always have some decent length in clubs since with four spades he would double and with five diamonds he would bid them.

 

Seems to me that E might bid 4H over 3H. I understand the try for 3NT but with this much shape I think a 4H cue (second round control) is better. If a club trick has to be surrendered before they can be run then 3N will most likely go down while 5C may make. If clubs are solid, 6C may well be on.

 

About the raise of 3S to 4S. I think this is wrong only if W could possibly hold four spades. If he would always begin with a negative double holding four spades then I think he can reason: Partner knows I don't have four, I may as well tell him I have a good three card holding. It's East's responsibility to see the stiff heart in his hand and to decide if he wants to play 4S in a Moysian. With all those clubs, I don't think he does. If E holds a different hand including the diamond ace and stronger spades but with some losers, the 4S contract could be perfect: Let the opponents take the first three hearts, tossing losers from hand, after which dummy guards the heart suit. Draw trump, run clubs. Edit: Or better, as whereagles says, ruff the second heart, take two rounds of trump, start running clubs. If there were losers you could toss them as I say, buit with no losers outside of hearts it's better to just ruff at T2.

 

If, over 4S, E bids 5C I think W could look at his AK and take a shot at 6. A lot easier if E bids 4H over 3H though.