on-line etiquette

[clayniac]

Most players I think welcome and encourage compliements. However, if one side makes an error or the opponents bid a slim slam that comes home, I find it hurtful for the opponents to say to the table "vwdp" "wdp" etc. Tonight, after the opponents made a doubled contract I can set by giving partner a ruff, dummy said righ to the table "YES!!!!"

If a pair gets a good board due to the opponents' mistake, that pair should express their pleasure privately in blue chat after the round or after the session. If a pair gets a good board by bidding a thin game or slam or by outstanding defense, they should do the same,

If a pair bids or plays or defends well, it would be welcoming for the opponents to say "vwdopp" or "wdopp."

Save the "wdp," "vwdp" etc for blue, private chat.

Share the "wdopp," "vwdopp" etc with the table in green chat.

If partner bids, plays or defends well, a quiet "wdp" in green chat to the table is ok, but not "WDP!!!" Save that for blue, private chat.

Always try to compliment the opponents in public, table green chat; ok to compliment partner quietly for something well done in public green chat.

But save the remarks on good boards caused by opponents' errors, pushy bids that work, fixes for private blue chat to partner between rounds or after the session. Save the 'WDP!!!" "VWDP" etc. for private blue chat.

Always greet the opponents. My standard greeting is "hi and gl." If I know the opponents, I will say a little more than that, and at times, introduce my partner to the opponents. Of course, i should keep these remarks brief and save the extensive socialization for when the round is over if there is time on the round clock.

Of course, be kind to your partner. If you must "discuss," do so in private blue chat between rounds or after the session. Thank partner for the dummy, even if partner misbid terribly. Save comments on that for private, blue chat.

Alas, I am the first to admit that I don't always practice all of the above 100% of the time, but I STRIVE to do so; and we all should make that our goal-to strive to be the best partner and opponent that we can be.

Comments on this post will be most welcome.

[pigpenz]

speaking of ethics, it would be nice to see someone not accept a misclick and correct to the proper result but I am sure if would almost never happen here :P

 

I had one the other day where my right hand led j♠ into q10♠ in dummy

i was busy thinking and tried to now play to next trick but it turned out i had played 10♠...my left hand opp was yelling at me to now play but I had to say sorry your partner won the trick :P

[kenberg]

I find wdp and all of its relatives absolutely mindless. So I ignore them. Or try to. If someone says "Thanks for overtaking to get me off the endplay" or, as today, "good job of counting, pard" I find this and similar comments fine whether it is complimenting a partner or an opponent.

[keylime]

As a live local pard of Patsy's now for almost a year and a half, I sense the vein of thought that she is writing from. Online bridge etiquette, is I feel, quite analogous to having a first date. Unfortunately for most of us, we haven't had a first date in a while! <chuckles>

 

Imagine this: what would your date feel if, you showed up at the door on time, but on the way to the car you got visibly excited because you actually remembered to clean the car PRIOR to the date and even vacuumed it for the first time in months? Then you get to the nice eatery and you opened the door for the lady, but then cheered the fact that you didn't have to wait 45 minutes to get the waterfront table after tipping the hostess? Better yet, you even remembered the flowers because you're really into this lady...but then left the receipt out in clear view to "show your approval of them"?

 

In this era where manners are at times an endangered species, cheering for a misfortune to your opponents is tasteless. However, I do not feel that saying wdp and such is unneeded, as long as it is not done on every hand like many beginners and intermediates feel compelled to do. I feel that this undermines the player because they don't have the proficiency to appreciate a "good score" versus a "regular score", no matter what BBO cross-imps it to.

 

Yes I'm all for a friendly game, but not one of automatic praise. One of the things that Larry and I (Larry is my nat'l pard) do is attempt to stay as even-keeled, even if one of us makes a dynamic play. It's nothing more than a smile or the nod of the head, and onward we go. Only after the round/session then we let it hang out.

 

I'm not expecting agreement here. I wouldn't be surprised if I am a minority on this view. However, I feel that for the sake of continuity that these things should be practiced more frequently.

[jillybean]

Coming from the group of “as long as it is not done on every hand like many beginners and intermediates feel compelled to do” if your partner makes the contract you type ‘wdp’ if not you type ‘gtp’ and same for the opps, replacing the p for an ‘o’ of course. You won’t have a clue if the play was good or bad but you learn how to do this early, its an easy way to fit in and feel like you are taking part in the game. You’re just thankful it’s your partner or the opps playing it and not you. :P

 

I don’t recall seeing so many advanced players praising their partners unnecessarily and experts hardly say a word at the table.

[pclayton]

My Dad used say, compliment in public, criticize in private. Of course, don't compliment if its as a result of someone else's error.

 

He also used to say, never fire people on Fridays, but thats another story :0

[sceptic]

I am very inconsistant here or even hypocritical if you want to look at it that way, but I play with some nice pards quite a lot and they do say WDP, OR EVEN VVWDP, the later usually occurs after I screw up to the extent that I will only make 9 tricks from a cold 10 tricks in a game contract and then then next card my opponents play gives me the game back and an over trick

 

I look at online life with anyone butsome one I know is a good player as just basic politeness, even when I get a compulisive pard or opponent that insists on saying it every hand and I feel like getting out the sick bucket.

 

It is just someones attempt at fitting in I think and should be treated as such, it may be difficult, but unless you can get people like BIL to refrain from educating newbies to say this all the time you are onto a loser Pasty, I do not see it changing

 

Personally a constant wdp and nto, when it is not deserved is worse that someone throwing the odd expletive into the game, but sometimes most of us would not realise a subtle good play or defence if it hit us in the face and a wdp or wdo is truly deserved

[Flame]

In principle i agree, what i hate most is when i give away a trick and the declarer say TY.

Yet there are players that always say WDP when their partner make his contract no matter what happend at the table, so they will still say it if it was a diffence error. The other type is me, i usually dont look at the play when im dummy and when im back i might say wdp especially if i remember thinking it was a hard contract when i put down the dummy and left.

[chicken]

My Dad used say, compliment in public, criticize in private. Of course, don't compliment if its as a result of someone else's error.

 

He also used to say, never fire people on Fridays, but thats another story :0

my dad used to say, never strike a burning dachshund.

 

does that fit in this category?

[Free]

I agree that you should only compliment when people deserve a compliment, since most successful boards are thanks to opponents' errors, not partner's brilliance. However, if your partner pulls off a nice double squeeze, do you really think I'm supposed to say "wdp" in private? I guess most of us know that you shouldn't criticize in public, but compliments which are deserved belong to the table imo.

Ofcourse, if opponents make a huge error and you make a doubled contract, it's quite foolish to say "wdp". I wonder if "nice" is also considered rude or not, since I use that from time to time. I don't think I'd find it rude, but sometimes other people experience it another way... ;)

[Walddk]

Perhaps more users should familiarise themselves with The Rules of this Site. In this context it reads:

 

"If you think your partner or opponents deserve a compliment for their bidding or play, please give them one! If you think such a comment from another player was not deserved, please keep this information to yourself."

 

Explore Bridge -> Bridge Library -> English -> The Rules of this Site

 

Roland

[clayniac]

Certainly a quiet "wdp" or "vwdp," "wdopp," "vwdopp", etc. on an exceptional defensive play, bid or declarer line of play is fine and called for. It is the "WDP!" VWDP!" etc, especially when an opponent errs, that I find uncalled for. I also agree that the constant "wdp," "ntp." "wdopp," "ntopp" etc, especially on routine bids, plays and defense, is over the top. I do however agree to compliment publicly and "discuss" privately. The side that is the recipient of a good board should share their pleasure privately; but as I said a quiet "wdp" or "vwdp" in public green chat to the table on EXCEPTIONAL, NON ROUTINE bids, plays and defenses is fine and as pointed out, even encouraged.

I strive to meet the etiquette standards of my initial post; I do not always practice those 24/7, but I strive to do so-and we all should.

What motivated me to make this post was the dummy's comment of "YES!!!!" after I let declarer make a doubled contract that I can set by giving partner a ruff. Those types of comments are uncalled for, imho.

Thanks all for the replies-I welcome more feedback.

Patsy

[kenberg]

The "Yes!' is clearly impolite. Perhaps strangely I actually find it less offensive than the oh so polite conversation that sometimes masks gloating. At least he is gloating and owning up to it. An honest man. Don't get me wrong, I don't approve of it.

 

Will Rogers claimed he never met a man he didn't like. I have always found that hard to believe. I guess he never learned to play bridge. But most bridge players, like most people, are a pleasure. Make a voodoo doll, stick a few pins in it, and forget him.

 

Ken

[Rain]

However, realise that some players:

 

1) May not have the necessary ability to realise they are praising a misdefence.

 

2) May not be paying attention and realise the crucial point was the misdefence.

 

In short, the annoying words may not be maliciously intended.

 

Obviously it could also be meant that way. Anything can be meant that way. Didn't Zia make a well-timed remark commenting that a contract can be made? Is this less annoying than WDP?

 

I've realised it'll be nice if I'm God for a day. I think I'll weed the world of evil people in various ways then, and maybe if someone like Mother Theresa was alive she'd get to be a gazillionare.

 

:>

[inquiry]

I almost never watch my parnter play bridge when I am dummy. As a bbo yellow, I am answering questions, and if not, it is often time for food break or to "visit the facility" or to chat with friends. This way, if partner butchers the hand, I have no idea (I do look afterwards at all hands). This mightnot be polite, but then I never have a cross word to say if he played badly. When I see that he or she made a contract, I sometimes type an automatic WDP.

 

After reading this post, I guess that wdp will have to become a thing of the past, or I will have to start paying attention and say it only when partner really did somethinng very well.

[EricK]

This is all a bit silly. If you were to play 25 hands, on how many would you not make any mistake at all? For most people the answer is very close to zero. Of course, many of the errors don't cost as the cards lie or go unpunished due to errors by the other side, but they are errors nonetheless.

 

If we were to only say wdp when the opps played perfectly then we might as well never say it at all.

[kenberg]

Oh well, I don't really want to sign on to the speech police but sometimes after a wdp I have to restrain myself from saying "Yes, indeed, brilliantly played. I am sure many players would have tried to cash the AKQJT4 by starting with the 4 and hoping the opponents duck. Starting with the ace was a true masterstroke." Really it seems that when one person comments on the play others should feel entitled to join in.

 

No I won't be doing that but the next time you say wdp when partner cashed out winners and did nothing else you can know I'll be thinking it. Vwdp is for taking a succesful finesse, as I understand the phrase.

[Trumpace]

This is all a bit silly. If you were to play 25 hands, on how many would you not make any mistake at all? For most people the answer is very close to zero. Of course, many of the errors don't cost as the cards lie or go unpunished due to errors by the other side, but they are errors nonetheless.

 

If we were to only say wdp when the opps played perfectly then we might as well never say it at all.

I guess the point was, if you realize there was a defensive/declarer mistake, don't compliment the winners. If you really think that partner/opp played well, go ahead and compliment. (making/breaking the contract should not be considered "playing well")

 

Reminds me of this incident

 

I was playing with a partner (who I know is definitely an expert). I got too optimistic (read stupid) and landed in a 6S contract (doubled) where even making 5S was not clear. I managed to escape with down 1 with some careful play (which I am happy about) . The first words from partner's mouth: "well done". He hadn't spoken a word in the couple of hands before.

 

 

And another one..

 

I was playing with an unknown partner, who claimed to be advanced and we were defending. In the middle of the hand it was clear that dummy, which had a couple of top club tricks was inaccesible to declarer and he would go down if we didn't allow him to reach the dummy. It was my partner's turn to play and he played a club (which would allow declarer to reach dummy and make the contract), I was shocked, but was relieved to see pard ask for an undo and opp accept it. Pard thought for a while (or visited the facility maybe :-)), and played the same club again! I burst out with a "lol". When declarer made the contract, partner said, "well done opps". That comment really annoyed me. I could not help it, and blurted out that the club return gave the contract away...

 

 

Why am I mentioning this? I foget the point I was trying to make!

 

[Ahh yes... I am usually pretty tolerant and silent during the play, but comments like wdo, wdp, when they don't deserve it can be really annoying]

Edited November 7, 2006 by Trumpace

[keylime]

Beaner,

 

You know better than most, the continuing love affair I have for the novices, beginners, and intermediates (what I will term the "fun" group, for they really do enjoy themselves)(I can't wait for the puns to start now).

 

The view that I was attempting to espouse did not come out quite the way I wanted to. What I should have added was that the level, the ratio in essence, of "wdp" and such, is different for the situation, and thusly that should be taken into account.

 

We both know that the fun group is just happy to be playing. Results are secondary to the overall enjoyment of the game itself. It is the experience of being "there" that matters most.

 

The competent group understands enough of the basics but still struggle at the advanced concepts. This group is much larger than most care to admit on BBO. Thusly there is this hybrid, this part "fun" and part "serious" approach, that comes across at the table.

 

The expert group is exactly that, the experts. This is 2nd nature to them. They understand the maximums of things. They know when and when not to do things. This group is a lot smaller than most care to admit to themselves.

 

The one idea that I wish to enforce, is that I myself, move in and out of these three groupings depending on situation. Sometimes I just need the enjoyment and the sheer wonder of a beginner actually bidding and making slam against me - I still remember the first few I bid because I got so tingly and nervous that they were probably the slowest played hands of my life. Other times I need to be with my friends and see them play decent, but with enough errors that the laugh softens the mood. Lastly, the times for the expert group, is when I'm either testing a new concept or working hard at my partnership with Larry or Patsy.

 

Please don't think that by my added emphasis that I was attempting to "lock in" people - BBO is definitely not of a caste mentality. Instead I was attempting, and failed wholeheartedly mind you, to demonstrate through analogy that there is a season for tooting one's horn, and a season for being a wallflower.

[clayniac]

Let's come to a consensus if we can. Yellows, please give your opinion of this:

Again I agree that there is a time for complimenting with a soft "wdp;" but like Ken said, not on routine hands where declarer takes the tricks entitled to him or her that should be a flat result-though rarely on BBO is there such an animal as "flat."

However, an example of my objection just happened again by an experienced, advanced plus bbo regular. My partner made an unfortunate return and dummy said "wdp" after the hand. Had my partner returned another suit, declarer probably would have been set.

Players of experience and advanced or beyond playing level certainly should refrain from "wdp" and such when the contract makes due to an opponent's error.

Perhaps we can come to a consensus that "wdp" is acceptable and even encouraged on exceptional bids, plays and defenses. Opponents should also readily say "wdopp" for the same, recognizing and acknowledging and appreciating good bridge.

What should be discouraged in public green chat is constant "wdp" etc. on routine hands.

And what especially should be discouraged in public green chat is "wdp" when the result is due to an opponent's error.

What should also be discouraged in public green chat is over the top exuberance such as "WOW!" "YES!" WDP!" "VWDP!" etc.

These comments certainly can be made privately between partners in private blue chat.

Lastly, constructive criticism to partner should be in private blue chat.

And a footnote: Certainly less experienced players, as pointed out, may not know any better and should be gently educated on good on-line etiquette and that some of their comments to the table may be perceived as impolite, or gloating if you will-though I abhor that word.

How do the readers of this post feel about this consensus i offer?

Patsy

[jillybean]

Having somewhat poo pooed this initially I was kibitzing a table today when a hand was declared poorly and the one of the opps said “A gift”. That makes me want to reach across the table a throttle the player, the person who played it will know they did poorly. I doubt trying to educate these ignorant *(&*^ will have much effect, perhaps one of the new rooms could be called ‘Patsys Polite Players Paradise” :D

[mike777]

I see this types of comments all the time in the late night tourneys. I grit me teeth and smile. Heck just look at young starred late night tables and see the 4 letter words fly :D

 

Too be fair it is late night soooo. :)

 

In the ACBL tourneys I am all for the directors stepping in and saying something but they almost never do, my guess is we do not complain to them late night.

[jillybean]

Too be fair it is late night soooo. :)

Late night where? :D

[kenberg]

My answer, not much of one, is that some folks might read this thread and give a little thought to their comments at the table. In fact, people vary a lot in sensitivity. The other night, playing f2f, pard opened a heart and I passed it out holding Axx/xxx/xxxx/Jxx. Since pard held KQx/AJTxx/x/AKQx this was not our best contract. Afterwards my rho commented that I should not have passed. No doubt that violates someone's rules but I don't take such comments as wrong at all. He and I have discussed bridge before, he may be right, I had considered biddng but decided not to, he is talking about the way he sees things, and it's fine. With me, it's fine. It's these inane wdps that can drive me up a wall.

 

Mostly I try not to take offense when none is intended, so say what you want. I'll live. But going on about partner's brilliance after the opponents have clearly fed you is a bit tacky.

 

Ken

[PaulH]

Feeling a little guilty about having started 2 threads this month, when i wanted to start a string about etiquette I typed in manners and ended here,

 

Is it just me (and my legendary luck) or are the evolving generation of players turning out to be more polite than us bunch of **************** . I have played about 400 hands this week (both on and offline) and the only people who have been rude to me should know better.

 

I think we may be heading for the new ultimate insult - glp wouldn't have bid it quite like that - last hand here.

 

Wow I love BBO and now because I'm not sober enough to play, I'm abusing the message boards, bet noone pulls me up on it!