high level decision

[Stephen Tu]

[hv=d=n&v=e&s=saxxxxhdqxxxxc98x]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

You hold this hand as South at favorable vul, matchpoints.

Bidding:

1♣-(dbl)-1♠-(p);

4♠-(5H)-?

 

What's your call & why?

[mike777]

5S

 

Dislike to defend with a void. Trust my vul opp.

 

Expect partner to be 4225 or 4216??

[pbleighton]

6S, because I am feeling unreasonable optimistic today :P

 

Peter

[P_Marlowe]

5S

 

Unless South is a lunatic, he goes at most

1 down, nothing in the bidding and in my hand

is an indication that he is a luncatic.

 

I wish I would playing IMP's.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[awm]

Pass... I think this is a forcing pass situation, especially if playing splinters. After partner's expected double I will bid 5♠ as a slam try.

[mike777]

Pass... I think this is a forcing pass situation, especially if playing splinters. After partner's expected double I will bid 5♠ as a slam try.

Why is this a forcing pass? Is this really pretty standard?

[awm]

Well what does partner have? He opened the bidding with 1m, so he's not bidding 4♠ as some kind of "preemptive" call on a potential eight-card fit where doubler implied length in the suit. In principle he could have some weakish 5-6 in the blacks hand, but doesn't that splinter over 1♠? Or he could have some 4-6 or 4-7 in the blacks hand, but those also splinter or bid 4♣.

 

This sequence shows something like 19 balanced with a four-card fit for spades. It's a voluntarily bid game on points rather than shape, with the intent to make. We also have guaranteed the majority of the values (19 opposite 5 or whatever). Why wouldn't this be a forcing pass?

[whereagles]

5♠. Got offensive power to that level.

[neilkaz]

The vul 5♥ bidder must have a hand that is too good to overcall 1♥ or his bidding makes no sense. If he had nothing much outide of ♥ he'd just have bid 4♥.

 

With this in mind, I suspect PD has some distribution and felt 4♠ had decent chances. However, I think trying for slam is a bit too optimistic, so I just bid 5♠ and let the chips fall where they may.

 

.. neilkaz ..

[P_Marlowe]

Pass... I think this is a forcing pass situation, especially if playing splinters. After partner's expected double I will bid 5♠ as a slam try.

Why is this a forcing pass? Is this really pretty standard?

It certainly is not forcing pass, our rules regarding

forcing pass are fairly agressive, but the given seq.

would not be covered.

 

4S may simply be based on shape.

And even if Pass would be forcing, I simply dont want

to defend.

Either it makes, or the oppoenetns already have won the

board through their bidding.

In case of IMP scoring 5S would even be clearer.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[cherdano]

Pass... I think this is a forcing pass situation, especially if playing splinters. After partner's expected double I will bid 5♠ as a slam try.

Why is this a forcing pass? Is this really pretty standard?

It certainly is not forcing pass, our rules regarding

forcing pass are fairly agressive, but the given seq.

would not be covered.

Well it's good you have clear rules for your partnership, but I think this is clearly forcing in standard. As Adam said, 4♠ is usually a balanced or semi-balanced hand in the 19-21 range. Otherwise, you splinter, or bid 4♣ with 6-4 in the black suits.

And even if Pass would be forcing, I simply dont want

to defend.

Of course not. Like Adam, I am passing, then pulling partner's expected double to 5♠ to invite partner to bid 6♠.

[Robert]

Hi everyone

 

I play that pass 'asks' partner to double and double* is forward going in high level auctions. Double* for me here. If partner has a heart stack(or wasted) heart values and he wants to defend 'after' hearing me suggest bidding higher, there should be blood on the table.

 

I am playing partner for 18+-19 balanced HCP. Did he really forget that we play splinters? With long clubs and four card support, he should bid 4C to indicate his hand type.

 

I am all in favor of trusting the other pair, howeve, some people do take 'gambles.'

If partner is passing my forward going double of 5Hs, they could have taken their life in their hands and found that the parachute is not(repeat not) working.

 

This is certainly a forcing pass situation by my standards. Partner holds @19HCP balanced and I hold my promised minimum in HCP 'plus' some extra shape.

 

Regards,

Robert

[flytoox]

5S is more than enough. Pd may have a hand for slam, but if he has it he will bid it. I will be happy if i can make 5S.

[HeartA]

I am not sure if 5S is enough or not. But I bidding it anyway.

[Codo]

For those who think, that pd has 19-21 balanced: If I add my 6 HCPs, we reach 25-27 HCP. That leaves 13-15 for the opponents. Quite unlikely, that this will produce a hand thast is too strong for a direct Heart bid but strong enough for X and then 5 Heart in unfav. vul. So pd has distibutional values but surely less then 19 HCPs.

I believe, that he has some 5-5 hand in the blacks but does not want to search for a slmam because his hand is not strong enough.

So 5 Spade is clear cut and more then enough.

[keylime]

5S from me. Do NOT defend with a void here.

[mikeh]

5S from me. Do NOT defend with a void here.

I don't think anyone is seriously thinking of defending: the question seems to be whether slam is worth investigating. My vote is no: I have a lot of ♦ losers to get rid of and something tells me the suits are not splitting. So 5♠ for me: who knows? Maybe LHO will think that the auction is forcing on him B) And I will get doubled, to stop rho from bidding on... now... do I redouble??? :)

[Apollo81]

Pass is clearly forcing in this auction. I would have made a slam try without the 5♥ bid, so I will do the same now. Pass then 5♠ for me.

 

If I had to guess what everyone has (not necessary) I'd guess KQxx xxx A AQJxx or something like it for pard. I wouldn't splinter on that hand... That still leaves --- AKQxxxx KJxx Kx for RHO, consistent with his sequence.

[cherdano]

For those who think, that pd has 19-21 balanced: If I add my 6 HCPs, we reach 25-27 HCP. That leaves 13-15 for the opponents. Quite unlikely, that this will produce a hand thast is too strong for a direct Heart bid but strong enough for X and then 5 Heart in unfav. vul. So pd has distibutional values but surely less then 19 HCPs.

I believe, that he has some 5-5 hand in the blacks but does not want to search for a slmam because his hand is not strong enough.

So 5 Spade is clear cut and more then enough.

If he has that hand, he will bid 5♠ over our forcing pass, so this can hardly be a reason against passing.

[Guest Jlall]

Pass is clearly forcing in this auction.

On the other extreme, I couldn't imagine ever having an agreement to treat this as forcing. The guy has Xed and bid 5H on his own, he has shown a much bigger hand than partner has. He is even red/white. We have shown about 0+ defensive tricks. Anyways, I would bid 5S this doesn't seem close to a slam try to me (the worst club holding possible and very few HCP).

[keylime]

I agree with you Mike wholeheartedly.

 

However I do not agree at all with many that feel that we are in a forcing pass situation. If I passed it around to pard they will double...only to find that a spade winner is gone due to the 5H caller being void in that suit. They are bidding red on white at the FIVE level. Either they have a death wish, or they got a hand that is going to go off only 1 in most situations worse case.

 

I also disagree with the notion that pard is strong and balanced. If pard had 4 card support and a solid club suit, and the inability to bid 4C rebid to show that hand (a certainly they would bid it this way, ESPECIALLY if they felt their hand was ill suited for a slam try if they splintered. Picture a scattered 19 count with K-x of diamonds and a stiff Q/K in hearts. No bueno.

 

Thusly, having 5♠ is half showing our offense, half taking insurance. It can't be in any way a slam try - I'd bid diamonds first THEN spades to show that hand.

[mikeh]

If you saw the stuff I bid 1♠ on in these situations, you'd never play this auction as creating a forcing pass :P

 

However, independent of that, I do not see this as a forcing pass situation.

 

If you have agreed that opener's 4♠ MUST be a balanced 19 count or so, then, yes this can and perhaps should be a forcing pass. But I heard my partner make what might well be a tactical call on the auction: he realizing that doubler will not be psyching and thus not worrying about scientific constructive bidding but preferring to put it to the opps as soon as possible: say KQJx xx x KQJxxx.

 

Would I bid that way? Probably not, but I tend to be a little stodgy in my approach, and a bid of 4♠ on that type of hand has a lot going for it.

 

Unless, of course, I am about to ignore the inferences available to me from RHO's bidding and play partner for a hand that he cannot have if RHO is even close to being in the same universe as the rest of us.

 

Unless, of course, we are in a random BBO game: the other night, playing with my wife, we encountered an opp, claiming to be advanced, who opened 1♦ in 3rd chair... I doubled...his partner bid 4♦... he bid 4N and passed the 5♣ response. He held J10xxx in ♣ and a stiff ♦A and a minimum opening hand. He refused to leave and I didn't bother booting him: the table left instead. Now, if he were RHO here, I'd rethink everything I just wrote about inferences :P

[akhare]

5♠ seems to be pretty clear assuming the opps are remotely sane (in the bridge sense)...

[Stephen Tu]

[hv=d=n&v=e&n=skqxxhxdxxcakqxxx&w=sjtxhqxxdjtxxcjtx&e=sxhakjtxxxxxdakcx&s=saxxxxhdqxxxxc98x]399|300|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

So North has made the tactical 4S bid rather than something more descriptive.

So if South passes (minority view, but what happened at the table) North is supposed to?

 

Is there any way to get this right, but also get it right if hand happened to be something like oh

[hv=d=n&v=e&n=skqxxhxdxxcakqxxx&w=sjtxhqxxdjtxxcjtx&e=sxhakjtxxxxxdakcx&s=saxxxxhdqxxxxc98x]399|300|Scoring: MP[/hv]

[pclayton]

Hi Stephen.

 

Sathya gave me the hand from the other side with what to bid over 1!s with the 4-6, and I think its a classic walsh jump. I think 4!s tends to show the 18-19 semi-balanced, since no splinter or walsh jump.

 

I also don't think a pass is forcing. But if opener bids 4!c, finding a 5!s call with the 5053 is a piece of cake.