jmc Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 We play pretty standard Precision with transfer positives, 10-13 opening NT. We have started using 1X-1M-2NT as showing a semi-solid 6+ cards in openers first bid suit and extra playing strength. We use 1x-1M-3x as extra playing strength and a solid 6+ card suit. 1D-1S-2NT might show xx-Ax-AQJxxx-Kxx. 1H-1S-3H might be xx-AKQxxxx-Kx-Qx. These are used by example not because they are necessarily prototypical. Is this a reasonable treatment? What might be the disadvantages? What might be better alternatives? I appreciate your thoughts. jonathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 Hi, in all of my strong club partnerships I play this auction as showing 3 card support for partner and 6+D and extra values. So 1D p 1H p 2N would be something like x Axx KQJxxx Axx. Rebidding 3D with this hand might miss hearts, and raising to 2H isn't very descriptive. with long diamonds you can always just rebid 3D, I don't see many advantages in distinguishing between a solid and semi solid suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 A classical meaning for 1M-1NT2NT is the 'big H' hand, a 14-15 hcp 6322 with good suit and some scattered honors on the side. Rigal's precision uses 1♦ 1M2NT = max, 6 diams, no 3-card M3♦ = max, 6 diams, 3-card M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impact Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 USP suggests that you should differentiate between the auctions by virtue of whether it is Single-raise plus1 (ie over 1S response) or single-raise plus 2. In any partnership which focuses on natural (as opposed to relay) bidding, the single-raise plus 1 (SR+1) is just too useful for multi-meaning bids to ascribe to it the one relatively rare hand that anyone has stipulated to date. Not only can you solve the BWS nightmare but you can also incorporate (via next suit puppet) a range of hands. In a different context using relays (where 1H is relay over 1D rather than natural) I stipulated:- 1D (multi 10-15) - 1S (nat nf)2NT= a) minor 3 suiter with 4S B) max hand with 3-1-4-5 or 3-1-5-4 c) semi-solid+ 6+minor max (defined as at least AKJxxx) Now instead of puppet responder who is limited bids on a pass or correct basis: 3m= Pass or correct (Opener rebids 3H with 5431, 3S with 4S and 3NT with C over a 3D signoff) 3H= on-going opposite 6m but doubt about H and only 4S 3S= as above with 5S 3NT= strongly held H and values (probably top Honour in each minor) In a more standard context:- 1D- 1H2S=SR+1 - 2NT=puppet? 3C= strength & shape similar to below but D suit weaker eg strong NT3D= 6+D & 3H otherwise suitable for 3D direct3H= economical jump 4-3-5-1 strong or fits gap in ranges depends on rem system3S= 6+D & 5+S3NT= differentiating from direct jump to 3NT by either H length or suit quality rather than strengthhigher= strong 4 card H raise which does not fit within direct raise structure If responder fails to puppet he is making a descriptive bid which shows a lack of interest in Opener's type!!! Obviously details depend on remainder of system structure in either event - and the assumption is that change of suit is forcing (so that opener's rebid of 1S would not be passed). regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adebisi Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 Hei, here is as i play: 1H 1S2NT max 14-15 with 4S 3C F1 Relay 3D/H=spl D/C 3S=5H4S223S good min 6H/4s 1D 1H2S max 14-15 with any spl+4H 2NT F1 Relay 3C/D/H=spl C/D/S 1D 1S2NT max 14-15 with any spl+4S 3C F1 Relay 3D/H/S=spl D/H/C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 i've played 2N as a solid diamond suit, a good diamond suit and 3 card support and void splinter for the major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshs Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 USP suggests that you should differentiate between the auctions by virtue of whether it is Single-raise plus1 (ie over 1S response) or single-raise plus 2. In any partnership which focuses on natural (as opposed to relay) bidding, the single-raise plus 1 (SR+1) is just too useful for multi-meaning bids to ascribe to it the one relatively rare hand that anyone has stipulated to date. Not only can you solve the BWS nightmare but you can also incorporate (via next suit puppet) a range of hands. In a different context using relays (where 1H is relay over 1D rather than natural) I stipulated:- 1D (multi 10-15) - 1S (nat nf)2NT= a) minor 3 suiter with 4S :) max hand with 3-1-4-5 or 3-1-5-4 c) semi-solid+ 6+minor max (defined as at least AKJxxx) Now instead of puppet responder who is limited bids on a pass or correct basis: 3m= Pass or correct (Opener rebids 3H with 5431, 3S with 4S and 3NT with C over a 3D signoff) 3H= on-going opposite 6m but doubt about H and only 4S 3S= as above with 5S 3NT= strongly held H and values (probably top Honour in each minor) In a more standard context:- 1D- 1H2S=SR+1 - 2NT=puppet? 3C= strength & shape similar to below but D suit weaker eg strong NT3D= 6+D & 3H otherwise suitable for 3D direct3H= economical jump 4-3-5-1 strong or fits gap in ranges depends on rem system3S= 6+D & 5+S3NT= differentiating from direct jump to 3NT by either H length or suit quality rather than strengthhigher= strong 4 card H raise which does not fit within direct raise structure If responder fails to puppet he is making a descriptive bid which shows a lack of interest in Opener's type!!! Obviously details depend on remainder of system structure in either event - and the assumption is that change of suit is forcing (so that opener's rebid of 1S would not be passed). regards, The problem is that responder isn't limited, so you really can't include hand type b here OR you have to use 3H as the only force (without hand b, you can always relay with 3C to find out hand type cheaply). If 3H was the force, then 3S=hand b, 3N and 4D is hand a (Usually you bid 3N unless its a wierd hand, but I hope we have stoppers in the right places!), and 4C and 4H are the Splinters. Personally I prefer to just raise directly on the 5431's and call it a day or use 2H as an ART max raise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshs Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 The usual treatment is you have 2 bids:a. 2Nb. 3Dand one of them shows just diamonds, and the other shows 6D and 3M. There is a debate about which treamtent is better based on the issue of correct siding NT. If you play a as the 6-3 hand you are less likely to end up in 3N (since you will play in the major a decent amount of the time) but when you do you have probably wrong sided it severely. If you play a as the 6 but <3 hand you are much more likely to end up in 3N you still have wrongsided it in many cases, but not as severely as in the other treatment. Its hard to weigh the two. Also, as has been mentioned a second hand type can be included in the 2N bid such as a splinter raise. When doing that its probably better to have 2N show 6D and 3 in M OR 4 card support and a singleton, and have 3D directly deny support. This way responder can sometimes just sign off in 3M or 4M without the opps knowing openers exact hand type (might effect the opening lead). But yes that does tell the opps that declarer has a 5'th trump which also helps them some. This way after 1D-1M-2N3C asks:3D: 6-3 hand3H Singleton Club, 4 card support3S: Singleton in the other major 4 card support Having said all that, the main reason to have 3D deny support while 2N shows support is the following:Suppose responder has a 5 card major and slam interest. 3M directly would be to play, so you need a way of both setting up a game force and agreeing trumps. If 3D showed the 6-3 hand you have to use 4C as a ART slam try agreeing the major (3 of the other major is needed to figure out if you belong in 3N). If 2N showed the support, you can start with 3C and then bid 3M next to set trumps if partner is nice enough to bid below 3M, this allows for a comfortable slam auction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blofeld Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 We play 2NT as initially denying 3-card support, with 3♦ promising it. The reason is that as well as having strong versions of both hand types there are the GF versions which come up from time to time. The 3♦ rebid clearly shouldn't be forcing, so the GF hand of this type goes somewhere else. 2NT is forcing, and also lower, so can include the GF version of the relevant hand type. We also put the GF version of the other hand type in there. As it's a lot easier to show support later than backpedal and deny support you'd shown, 2NT denies 3-card support unless it's GF. This does put some strain on slam auctions when the 2NT bidder doesn't have 3-card support, but when they have the 3-card support GF hand they clarify their values nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 We play: 1x 1y (including 1♣ 1♦ ... and 1♥ 1♠ ...)2NT as denying three-card support 1x 1y3x as showing three-card support The first auction is unconditionally forcing. The second auction is limited and not forcing. Our continuations are: 1x 1y2NT ... 3x weak and does not even promise support - "I would have passed a nf 3x rebid in a standard system" new suit natural and forcing 3y natural and forcing showing at least six. c.f. 1x 1y; 3x 3y in standard which is best played as forcing 3NT to play - we tend to gamble on stoppers 4x natural and forcing (unless hearts) 4y to play (unless diamonds then forcing) jump new suit cue for partner's suit 1x 1y3x pass to play new suit cue for suit "y" (responder's suit) 3y to play 3NT to play - we gamble on stoppers a little but also tend to bid 5minor fairly often on this auction 4x natural and forcing 4y to play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmc Posted May 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2007 Assuming you play 1x-1y-2NT and 1x-1y-3x as Joshs suggests above (6cd suit and 3cd support or 4cd support and a stiff, max 6cd suit less than 3 cd support) then how do you play the following: 1h-1NT (forcing)-2NT1h-1NT (forcing)-3h1s-2x(game forcing)-2NT Assume your opening NT range is 10-13. Does your answer change if your opening NT range is 14-16? jmc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdonn Posted May 16, 2007 Report Share Posted May 16, 2007 This way after 1D-1M-2N3C asks:3D: 6-3 hand3H Singleton Club, 4 card support3S: Singleton in the other major 4 card supportWithout getting into the issues of which bid should be 3-6 and which should be (0-2)-6, how about the following. 1♦ 1♠ 2N3♣ asks:3♦: 3-63♥/3♠: Splinter in clubs/hearts as you say, but game invitational3NT/4♣: Splinter in clubs/hearts, GF (not so likely playing strong club but possible)Direct splinter over 1♠: Void(random thought, 4♦ rebid there could be 4171, the double splinter people love to joke about in bidding problems B) ) 1♦ 1♥ 2♠2N asks3♣/3♥: Game invite splinters3♦: 5-6 in spades and diamonds, max3♠/3NT: Better splintersDirect splinter over 1♥: Void 1♦ 1♥ 2N: (0-2)-61♦ 1♥ 3♦: 3-6 (or reverse those, whatever) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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