inquiry Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 [hv=d=w&v=n&s=sak874hakt98754dc]133|100|Scoring: IMP(P)-P-(3NT)-? 3NT was gambling. The hand was played in The DongMing knockout. Roland allowed how no one has a system for a hand like that (well, i disagree, but that isn;t the point of this post). What do you bid over 3NT?[/hv] The commentators suggested 6H and the bidding went 3NT-6H at both tables. Can't hardly complain about that, but another consideration was 5NT(pick a slam)., which no one discussed. I wonder if there is any merit to 5NT? I mean, 8-5's are not every day occurances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 i think 5N has very little merit. This hand is a 1 suiter, not a 2 suiter. If you bid 5N 6C 6H partner is going to correct with say 32 in the majors. BTW I thought it was standard to play 4C over a gambling 3N as both majors, guess I was wrong :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 6H is my first reaction and I stick to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted October 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 i think 5N has very little merit. This hand is a 1 suiter, not a 2 suiter. If you bid 5N 6C 6H partner is going to correct with say 32 in the majors. BTW I thought it was standard to play 4C over a gambling 3N as both majors, guess I was wrong :rolleyes: Any spade losers you have are not going away in spades or in hearts, correct? I mean, you don't expect to pull trumps and then ruff spades in dummy do you? Of course 6S risk a heart ruff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 why not? if partner has say Qx of hearts, and the AK of diamonds I can make 6 hearts without the spades. if partner has something like Jxx of spades and spades are 4-1 with Qxxx on my left i get tapped in spades but in hearts i can play ace, low to the jack. If hearts are 3-0 and partner has Qxx of spades I am going to get tapped out playing spades but will make hearts. If partner has Txx of spades and RHO has a stiff honor i make in hearts but not spades. If we get into big trouble and get Xed in spades we are going to go for a huge number (1700 territory) but only down 1 or 2 in hearts. If partner has Qx of spades and xx hearts he might try 6S because he has better spades. This could lead to a disaster if things dont break (which they dont rate to) etc etc. There are a million possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 I was thinking of passing and cashing 10 tricks vs 3NT, but then I saw our side is the one that's vuln. Well, in absence of system, 6♥ looks fine, but I can live with 5NT as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Yup 6♥ looks reasonable to me. I usually play Multi-Landy against a gambling 3NT, I suspect most defences to 1NT would work over 3NT as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 I play Ripstra against Gambling 3N. Since I don't have a 'better' minor, I'll just shoot 6♥ :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 3NT was not gambling, it was a pre-empt in a minor (4mi would have been Namyats). OK, it's beside the point, but yes, I still believe that no-one has a system for a hand like that. I obviously know what the contract should have been, but I think 6♥ is a fair shot. I doubt that anyone can find out if partner has the right cards for any slam, small as well as grand. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 I agree.You can have a system to show a major 2-suiter, but if it shows an 8-5 it ain't going to come up very often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 I used to play something like (3NT) 4♣ = majors, emphasis on hearts (could be 54, though)(3NT) 4♦ = majors, emphasis on spades (54 possible again)(3NT) 4M = natural In this case I suppose I could try 4♣ :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted October 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 I used to play something like (3NT) 4♣ = majors, emphasis on hearts (could be 54, though)(3NT) 4♦ = majors, emphasis on spades (54 possible again)(3NT) 4M = natural In this case I suppose I could try 4♣ :P GACK.. you have zero clubs, your partner could have 6, 7 or more clubs... you really want to risk him deciding pass is better than a 4-2 or 5-1 fit? BTW, I was not suggesting that I would bid 5NT, 6H looks like the reasonable bid, and I said so. I was just a little surprised none of the ocmmentators mentioned the alternatives, at least to my recollection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bid_em_up Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 I'm slightly surprised noone has suggested simply doubling 3N.... Its almost impossible that they (or partner) can sit for it, and you may be better placed after the next round of bidding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Doubling is a bit frightening.Partner will sit it on some balanced nothing much hand.LHO will sit it happily looking at QJxQJxQJxxxxx (yeah, I know, a very specific hand indeed and I agree it's unlikely that double will end the auction - but why risk it?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bid_em_up Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Doubling is a bit frightening.Partner will sit it on some balanced nothing much hand.LHO will sit it happily looking at QJxQJxQJxxxxx (yeah, I know, a very specific hand indeed and I agree it's unlikely that double will end the auction - but why risk it?) Well, you're probably not making the 6H everybody else is bidding on your suggested hand, either are you? And if partner sits for it, I will be content on the majority of hands. And I dont believe that RHO will ever sit for it, ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jlall Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Doubling is a bit frightening.Partner will sit it on some balanced nothing much hand.LHO will sit it happily looking at QJxQJxQJxxxxx (yeah, I know, a very specific hand indeed and I agree it's unlikely that double will end the auction - but why risk it?) Well, you're probably not making the 6H everybody else is bidding on your suggested hand, either are you? Yes, because partner is 2-2 in the majors :P oops...6H is cold and 3N is cold... Besides even if 6H goes down it's better than 3NX making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walddk Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 I was just a little surprised none of the ocmmentators mentioned the alternatives, at least to my recollection. Not quite true, Ben. Here are some extracts: Walddk2: No one has a system for a freak hand like that.CuttySark: Not a hand for science - blast it!Cutty Sark: Pre-empt in a minor - makes bad breaks more likely.kinman: X? and then bid 6♥?jtr: or 4NT? then 6♥.wilkinsona: X then cue.jtr: X then cue sounds ok. Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 I used to play something like (3NT) 4♣ = majors, emphasis on hearts (could be 54, though) In this case I suppose I could try 4♣ :P GACK.. you have zero clubs, your partner could have 6, 7 or more clubs... you really want to risk him deciding pass is better than a 4-2 or 5-1 fit? Well, if pard had 6 or 7 clubs, he would have opened the bidding already :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 And if partner sits for it, I will be content on the majority of hands. And I dont believe that RHO will ever sit for it, ever. I happy to argue the toss over whether LHO and/or partner are likely to sit for a double of 3NT, and whether we are going to be in the right spot if they do.... but yes, I would certainly expect RHO to sit for it. Originally 3NT was assumed to be a standard 'gambling' 3NT showing a solid minor. If you open a gambling 3NT, LHO doubles and partner and RHO pass then you will and absolutely should pass 100% of the time. Anything else is asking for a new partner. If 3NT showed a 4m pre-empt it now depends on partnership agreement, but again if partner's pass shows a desire to play in 3NTx and if you have your call why on earth would you run? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keylime Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 5NT I don't think is clear enough in overtones...since pard might pick a minor! I think a takeout bid then 5NT might be better.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impact Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 5NT I don't think is clear enough in overtones...since pard might pick a minor! I think a takeout bid then 5NT might be better.... THe problems with that suggestion is that a) partner may pass with his long suit (assuming a minor suit takeout scheme) :P assuming you use 4NT as extreme strong takeout - and hence KNOW that you will get another chance, the 3 card disparity between the suits is just too great and partner will have too many ways to go wrong. Note that 4NT is right on say AKxxxxx AKxxxx types or slightly stronger 6-6 shapes - or perhaps even if the S were the long suit as you can always convert, but it will be wrong far more often to let partner choose S on the basis of say 2-1 preference (or 2-0!!).....not to mention many other possibilities. Put yourself in partner's shoes: if you encourage him to make an intelligent choice of contracts - you can't blame him for so doing! Attempting to find both Major Q or some such - or 4card S support (!!!) is fairytale stuff.... regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 5NT I don't think is clear enough in overtones...since pard might pick a minor! Well, he picks a minor and I revert to hearts. That should clearly show the majors, no? I mean.. what else could I have for that bidding? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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