club games & players conduct

[Stephen Tu]

fwiw if 4♠ had made and then the td was called would that be handled the same as when the TD is called immeditaely after the hesitation? How do you guard against the opps taking a double shot here?

 

You don't. If your side committed an infraction, the opponents get a double shot here, that's your penalty for the infraction. If 4♠ goes down you keep your bad result, they aren't damaged so no adjustment. If 4♠ makes, & the 4♠ was deemed to be suggested by unauthorized information, they were damaged, & your side gets 170 only (+ any overtricks).

 

Now whether your side committed an infraction depends on more details, particularly your system agreements. If you have some special (rather unusual) agreement that 2♠-3♠ was game invitational, rather than blocking, then if he had a good weak 2 then bidding on is fine. But without special agreements, then it would be clear that 4♠ was suggested by the hesitation & would get rolled back if it made (for most players; if it could be established that opener is a rather raw beginner, & has no knowledge about the usual responses to weak twos, no concept of blocking bids, & simply thought that this sequence was invitational, then 4♠ might be allowed).

 

If you want to avoid giving opponents double shots, then you take note when partner breaks tempo (or other UI like fingering bidding cards before passing, or mistaken alerts/explanations, etc.), decide what the logical alternative actions are, decide which if any of these actions are suggested by the UI, then avoid taking those actions. If 3♠ had been passed, you keep your score always, since passing is the only logical alternative for most people on that auction. By bidding 4♠ a heads I lose, tails they win situation is created.

 

I really wish that in beginner classes the teachers would give a bit of a primer on the proprieties of the game, ones responsibilities when there are misexplanations & breaks in tempo. It is rarely done; new players then get the wrong idea & feel persecuted when they get the director called on them, since they had no idea that they did anything improper.

[blackshoe]

fwiw if 4♠ had made and then the td was called would that be handled the same as when the TD is called immeditaely after the hesitation? How do you guard against the opps taking a double shot here?

Certainly. TD has to get the facts in either case - including whether the call was based on "I think somebody took advantage of UI" or "We got a bad score, waah, waah".

 

Reviewing hesitations or not  online is a choice the TD makes, imho there is no reason to treat it any differently to r/l hessitation.

 

Um. I agree that there is no reason to treat them differently. I'm not so sure about this "choice" thing. On what basis is the online TD making this choice?

[jillybean]

Reviewing hesitations or not  online is a choice the TD makes, imho there is no reason to treat it any differently to r/l hessitation.

 

Um. I agree that there is no reason to treat them differently. I'm not so sure about this "choice" thing. On what basis is the online TD making this choice?

What I mean here is that some TD’s consider since BIT online can be caused by external influences all BIT is disregarded and they will not rule on BITs.

Others acknowledge that a BIT did occur and make a ruling on the use of the UI

[blackshoe]

A BIT is not in itself an infraction of law. And it may or may not convey UI. TD is required to use judgement. That's why we get paid the big bucks. B)

 

The mere fact that a BIT occurred does not necessarily call for a ruling. But if the players call the TD and say "there was a break in tempo, we believe there subsequently may have been an infraction" the TD is derelict in his duty if he refuses to make a ruling - and I would count an automatic "no infraction" as such refusal. Yes, it's harder online, because of the possibility of loss of connectivity. Some have said that they would also excuse other external causes, such as a phone call, but... - you know what? In every f2f game I've played in over the last few years, one of the rules is "turn off your cell phone!" I think you can guess how I feel about folks dropping out of an online game to answer the phone. Get an answering machine! B) Anyway, the fact that it's harder to decide on UI rulings where lag or connection loss may have been involved doesn't absolve the TD of his responsibility. I don't expect him to get it right every time. I do expect him to try.

[jillybean]

It is even a little easier for the TD, on BBO loss of connectivity is signaled by a red dot on the user name.

This leaves other distractions that are out of the players control happening at the exact same time that a bid is required and where the pause could have conveyed UI to your partner. I believe the chances of this happening are very small.

[helene_t]

Board22 How do I make an invite here, I thought a 3♥ should show some values in ♥'s, inviting partner to game in NT, ♠ or even ♥ (54xx)

No, you need a general game try and the only call available is 3♥. If opps had been silent (or bid 3♣), 3♥ would indeed say something about hearts.

 

Board21 I understood 3♣ to be a cue bid and since we were below game I was cooperating by showing my A♠ 

Depends. If 2♠ was GF with heart support, you can play 3♣ that way. If it's invitational or better, 3♣ is whatever trial you play but could also be an advanced control.

 

(If 2♠ is a general GF, 3♣ is natural of course)