club games & players conduct

[Elianna]

We played the Sat night game at the Vancouver sectional and finished 5th in section B with 45% and another 0.3 MP! ;)

I dont really understand this as we should be in Section C with our grand total of about 3MP's.

Congratulations!

 

And 3 possible reasons why you got your placement in B:

 

1) They had only two divisions: A and B. This is not likely in an open game, but pretty likely in a small, limited game, where they didn't have enough people to round out the other divisions. However, since you got points for being 3rd in B, this sounds highly unlikely in your case.

 

2) Whenever you are placed in a category, you are automatically in the category above. So if you're in C, you're automatically in both B and A. If your placement in B was worth more points than your placement in C, then you get points on the first criteria.

 

3) A director mis-enterred your name/ACBL number. This has happened before (more often in club games, but also in tournaments), and I always check that it is MY name that appears in the recap sheet.

 

By far the most likely to have happened is #2.

[blackshoe]

We played the Sat night game at the Vancouver sectional and finished 5th in section B with 45% and another 0.3 MP!  :) 

I dont really understand this as we should be in Section C with our grand total of about 3MP's. 

 

Board8 was one of the bottom boards for us, 6♣ makes, 6N-1 how would you bid it?

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=sj10xhaqda95ckq973&s=sakhj985dk106ca842]133|200|1nt:2♣

2♦:4nt

6nt[/hv]

When a game is stratified, a pair can win in their stratum, or in any higher stratum. If you, as a C pair, do better than all the B pairs save one, and better than all the C pairs, you will get the better of the masterpoints for coming 2nd in B or the masterpoints for coming 1st in C. If all the A and B pairs do better (i.e., have a higher percentage of the matchpoints) than you, you still get masterpoints if you place high enough in stratum C (and there are enough pairs in that stratum that masterpoints will be awarded - I think the minimum is 5 pairs).

 

Elianna is right about the other two possibilities - including that they are very rare relative to this one. Also, stratification is arbitrary - the TD can place the limits wherever she likes, trying to give the best balance to the field.

 

If you're going to accept your partner's quantitative 4NT, nothing says you can't suggest another strain along the way. You could bid 6♣ over 4NT.

[jillybean]

Today I played in an intermediate 0-1500 MP game with another new partner, we had a very nice time and came 3rd in sectionA with 55.79% and another .something of an MP :P Im not sure how much this says about my ability rather than the standard of the competition.

 

I wish we had hand records, there were a couple of boards I’d like to review but have no hope of remembering them. Ive noticed that I do tend to play on blindly when PlanA fails and I do not stop to reconsider and make a new plan. Sad to say this isnt new. I am not reviewing the boards as we play and I have stopped taking notes on bidding, lead etc. This helped a lot with my concentration on the last few tables.

 

I did notice that we didn’t do so well after partner opened with a weak2 and we introduce a new suit with little tolerance for partner’s suit. We invariably played in 3x with a 6/1 fit :) Perhaps not surprising 1st time partnership and my undisciplined weak 2's.

 

jb

[blackshoe]

I would strongly recommend Anderson and Zenkel's Preempts from A to Z. Excellent book! :P

[jillybean]

Hubby and I played in an open pairs game at the club last night. The kiwi’s will get a chuckle here, this time we paid $10 (NZ$12.70) each to shuffle and deal our own cards, no hand records. The extra cost was due to it being a Canadian Open Pairs qualifier game.

 

I can’t remember anything spectacular about our bidding or play. We got a top board after I opened 1nt and our opps got into a bidding war and went 5♠X-3, Im happy to take these gifts when they are offered up. Generally I think we were simply out bid and out played, finishing with 46.06% and 2 places off qualifying.

 

I hope the clubs here will invest in a little technology to provide basic hand records for the games, if not perhaps we will see a mass migration of bridge players to NZ or BBO :)

[Robert]

Hi everyone

 

Do you really want to be in a NT slam with 31HCP 'plus' a holding of AQ and AK in your doubleton major suits?

 

A lot of HCP in short suits tend to reduce your trick taking total. A spade 'hook' is just not possible with that 'AK' holding.

 

If you are going to bid a minor slam with these cards, there are an assortment of methods.

 

You could accept the slam try of 4NT by jumping to 6C as a 'possible' contract, however, only 'after discussing it' with partner.

 

If you do not have a decent five card suit to jump to slam in, you might use 5NT as pick a contract, to discover your 4-4 minor fits.

 

I use 1NT-3H* as CONFIT(control/fit asking bid)-3NT*(five controls, A=2 and K=1)-4C(Hxxx+ suit)-6C(HHxx+ jump raises)

 

Some pairs play 1NT-2C-2Y-4NT-'if' you accept you can show suits bidding them 'up the line.' Be sure and discuss this with partner first because some pairs accept the slam try by making a BW reply(just to avoid slams missing 'two cashing'

Aces) :)

 

Congrats on your 55.79% game in a 0-1,500 field. Shows promise. :)

 

When you are dummy, perhaps that would be a good time to take some notes on the hands. If both you and your partner do that, at least one of your partnership would be writing down the hand to discusss later and maybe also make notes about the bidding.

 

board 26. You missed somethng in the bidding. After partner raised to 2S, the other pairs' only possible bid at the two level would be an unlikely 2NT(unless they were playing Good/Bad 2NT* and that would require an alert)

 

Bidding three over three is often 'not' recommended 'without' good reason. You might have suspected a bad trump break due to the takeout double by RHO. You held a weak hand with a very weak 5 card suit. You also did have quite a few losers.

 

If you get a chance, you might want to try 'support doubles' to 'show' a three card raise. Your partner could have made a support double over the 2C bid. That bid might very well cause you to avoid making that 3S bid.

 

A side bonus of playing support doubles is that you may freely bid to the three level 'knowing' that partner is showing four card support for a raise. A 'known' 5-4 fit is often reason to bid three over three.

 

When you play weak two bids, you should not bid poor six card suit in reply to a weak two opening. Most pairs play RONF(raise only non force) so a new suit should be forcing. I happen to play a non standard 'new suit non forcing', however, it does show a good suit 'plus' a fairly strong hand.

 

Best regards,

Robert

[pigpenz]

We played the Sat night game at the Vancouver sectional and finished 5th in section B with 45% and another 0.3 MP! :D

I dont really understand this as we should be in Section C with our grand total of about 3MP's.

 

Board8 was one of the bottom boards for us, 6♣ makes, 6N-1 how would you bid it?

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=sj10xhaqda95ckq973&s=sakhj985dk106ca842]133|200|1nt:2♣

2♦:4nt

6nt[/hv]

were you playing with Pickett?

[jillybean]

Today hubby and I played in an open stratified game. We had a good time, the people were very nice and we got a good result 3rd with 51.62% in section B.

 

We are learning by trial and error what to alert or announce, you are expected to announce your 1nt range but not 2nt, our ops expected us to alert 2♣ but not the 2♦ (waiting) response - I’ll have to read up on r/l alerts and announcements.

 

We arrived too late to get an EW seat and so I ended up sitting North and scoring for the first time. I needed to call the director once when I realized the boards I’d just passed on had the score in the wrong row other than that it went ok, people were happy to help when they saw me fumbling with the scores. :)

 

What went well today was our aggressive 3rd seat openings, not so well was we failed to get over tricks when we lost count of the spots and forgot to play winners. The bidding went well up until the last board my lho reempted 3♠ Bill bid 4♦ and I went to 5 with a poor 9 count a 3 ♦'s.5Dx-3 for a complete bottom. My excuse 'I thought it was forcing' :D I’ll have to get that book.

[mycroft]

Kathryn, I believe you are in ACBL territory. In which case, the alert chart is at:

 

http://www.acbl.org/play/alertprocedures.html

 

Please note that this document will bend your brain. There are two extremes of "what to Alert" - one is "Alert what is not natural" and the other is "Alert what is not Standard." I won't get into the argument over what is best (and it's a long argument with many valid points on both sides, plus useful middle-roads), but the ACBL has decided to go very strongly toward "Alert what is not Standard." Which has three problems for new players:

 

- You need to know about Expert Standard. Responsive Doubles, 2C rebids on xx with 4=5=2=2 after 1H-1NT forcing, *ANY* responses to 4NT ace-asking, and the like are not Alertable, and you have to know this, even if you don't play it.

- In some situations there are two "standard" ways of playing a call, and neither are Alertable (the classic being 1NT-2x-double, if it's penalty or takeout, it isn't Alertable). You have to know when to ask.

- The Alert Procedure will bend your brain :-) (Please note, it bends everybody's brain, including tournament Directors and members of the Competitions and Conventions committee (who wrote it)).

 

I would suggest reading from the beginning to Types of Alerts - in particular, the Announcement section and the Failure to Alert or Announce section - and ignore the rest, unless you're actively checking something you're playing. You'll see (as you probably already have) that you have some protection from sharks, but it is still your responsibility to know what is Alertable in your system. Oh, possibly skim the Conventions section - "Almost all conventions must be Alerted, and here are the exceptions".

 

However, if you are playing Standard, with 2C Strong, Artificial and Forcing, despite what your opponents believe, it is not Alertable in the ACBL. Also (and many every-day ACBL players do not know this), 2D in response to the artificial strong 2C is not Alertable *unless it promises values* (i.e. 2H is the immediate bust hand) or it means something other than "negative or waiting".

 

Most people are going to try to help. Some are going to play the rules as an intimidation tactic (knowingly or not). Find one person who knows what's going on (I'd like to recommend the TD, but it does depend on your club) and ask her, double-check with the printed Procedure if necessary, and ignore everybody else (including me, but not the TD, not during her game, at least) when they tell you something's Alertable or not. And if the opponents feel they have been damaged, but choose to take their damage out in berating you instead of calling the TD and getting a ruling, call the TD yourself, and get a ruling - and do it before you get upset and blow the rest of the round. Who knows, they might be wrong - and if they're right, at least you'll know why.

 

And frequently the ruling will be "there was Misinformation, you should have Alerted it, but there was no damage, so no adjustment. Thank you for calling."

 

Michael.

[Finch]

I can't give you advice on the ACBL alerting regs, but I would say the following:

 

- Don't be afraid to ask the opponents what their bids mean. If they're having an uncontested auction you can wait until the end (to avoid it getting very slow with a question after every bid) and just say "please can you explain the auction".

 

- It will rarely matter if you alert something that shouldn't have been alerted. So if you aren't sure, alert it. In general terms that will cover pretty most things where the bid doesn't mean what it sounds like (some of these aren't alertable in the ACBL, but as I said it probably won't hurt).

 

- Most people don't know the alerting rules anyway. I have played once in an ACBL club game (in Toronto). Because I'm i) sad, ii) had a long boring plane journey and iii) am interested in rules, I read them up in a fair amount of detail before we played and learnt all about pre-alerts, post-alerts, announcements.... I can say with some certainty that I knew more about the rules than anyone we played that evening!

[keylime]

Beaner,

 

When I was up in Canada I used to hate moving; now with Larry I like moving because it kickstarts the brain after an early wakeup (God I am SO not a morning person - where's the Starbucks again in downtown Nashville?) and more importantly after dinner.

 

Give you a hint: if using pickup slips, I put them right behind the pass cards to keep them out of the way. If using the long travellers I fold it into 3rd's if not already and place it under the bid box. The lack of visual distraction for me helps to keep focus.

[Elianna]

We arrived too late to get an EW seat and so I ended up sitting North and scoring for the first time.

That was just amazing to me! At the club where I direct, if you are able to move, you must make a reservation WAY in advance to get a NS seat (usually a week or more). And by able to move, I mean you don't have a walker. I've had some ladies play EW who had canes. And every player at my club seems to have a bad back so they can't move. Funny thing is, some of these bad backers can get up to smoke after every round.

 

I usually prefer to sit EW so it's less rude to get up from the table to get away from people. the only exception is if I happen to be carrying a lot of things for one reason or another.

[mike777]

We arrived too late to get an EW seat and so I ended up sitting North and scoring for the first time.

That was just amazing to me! At the club where I direct, if you are able to move, you must make a reservation WAY in advance to get a NS seat (usually a week or more). And by able to move, I mean you don't have a walker. I've had some ladies play EW who had canes. And every player at my club seems to have a bad back so they can't move. Funny thing is, some of these bad backers can get up to smoke after every round.

 

I usually prefer to sit EW so it's less rude to get up from the table to get away from people. the only exception is if I happen to be carrying a lot of things for one reason or another.

Yep very true in my exp in Southern Cal but that was ok.....just knew I was always ew :)

[iggygork]

A lot of pairs do seem to have a great interest in getting N/S seating (they must like bookkeeping), so much that ACBL even quizzes its prospective directors on the director's exam about how to facilitate this. To wit:

 

Bonus question from ACBL Director's Exam: You have a 5 table Howell movement. Two pairs show up, both requesting stationary seat assignments. What do you do?

[blackshoe]

That's not really a "N/S" seating question, but more a "how do you modify a Howell if you need to have two stationary pairs" question.

 

At one of the games at which I direct from time to time, we have two players for whom moving after every round is undesirable, due to physical disabilities. It has nothing to do with preferring to sit N/S.

 

The answer to the question, btw, is "run a reduced Howell", that being a Howell with two stationary pairs, and therefore eight instead of nine (for a five table game) moving pairs, and eight instead of nine rounds. In North America, a reduced Howell is more often called a three-quarter Howell.

[mycroft]

Depending on the exact question asked, you can play with a phantom table (requires a seating card) and tell everyone that when they have to play pair X (1 by preference, in ACBL standard howells where top pair is stationary) to take the boards and go to the phantom instead. If there's some mobility, such that one of the two stationaries can move *once*, this allows all 9 rounds (but the TD has to keep a very close eye on things!)

 

If what happened is that the two pairs came late, I pull out Groner, just to make sure, and run an Appendix Howell. I deal with the one board that got played by the "wrong pairs" if I have to make both late pairs stationary, put one of the pairs stationary NS at table 1, and the other EW at table 6, and they relay all night, with everyone going NS1 playing NS6. Again, lots of work for the TD, but it does work.

 

As far as N/S and ACBL goes, it's not really the "I want to score", or "I'm too fragile to move" (although those do exist, and we deal with them), it's "I have a big coat, a big purse, my footrest, my coffee, and my scorecard, and I just want to stash them and go." If they're North, they're Lord of the Table, and woe betide anyone who wishes to change *that*. Also, many places will put the sit-out E/W all the time (including if there's a skip), so the "I want N/S" players never miss a board (I do my best to ensure that the sitout is 60% N/S, to break this up a bit - and boy do I get complaints. On the other hand, I try very hard to fill tables, first, so there isn't a sitout).

 

For some reason, the "require stationaries" tend to be stronger (or, rarely, much weaker) than average, and the wannabe stationaries are the experienced non-experts who show up 45 minutes early for the privilege of sitting N/S - so the N/S field in any ACBL club I've been in is 3-5% stronger than the E/W field. I try to tell people who are looking for masterpoints that it's easier E/W, but they don't listen... This, added to the griping when our precious players don't get to play N/S, makes seeding the field when that is necessary a political headache for the TD. But we get paid, in part, to dine on the fecal matter, neh?

 

Michael.

[Elianna]

As far as N/S and ACBL goes, it's not really the "I want to score", or "I'm too fragile to move" (although those do exist, and we deal with them), it's "I have a big coat, a big purse, my footrest, my coffee, and my scorecard, and I just want to stash them and go." If they're North, they're Lord of the Table, and woe betide anyone who wishes to change *that*. Also, many places will put the sit-out E/W all the time (including if there's a skip), so the "I want N/S" players never miss a board (I do my best to ensure that the sitout is 60% N/S, to break this up a bit - and boy do I get complaints. On the other hand, I try very hard to fill tables, first, so there isn't a sitout).

My club is ACBL, too, and our main problem is inability to move. I bet that we have an older average population. Our day games seem to have an average age of 80. I'd say 90% are over 70.

 

We also almost always have N/S have a sit out (when there is one) so that way the boards actually get PASSED. The only time I have an E/W sit out is when we have 6 or 8 tables and so there's a relay-byestand movement (and thus no relay).

[jillybean]

We played in a very nice & well run, 0-1500mp game tonight, finishing 3rd in SectionA with 54.89% I think we played well, but here are the boards that didn’t go so well...

 

Board24 My partner opened the bidding:

1♣ (P) 1♠ (X)

3♣ (P) 5♣

 

5♣-1 My partner intended 3♣ as competitive, I jumped to 5♣ thinking 3♣ was strong after the X

I see we need some more agreements here. :P

 

Board22 With stiff K♦ I downgraded this hand and missed game, should we have bid it?

 

[hv=d=n&v=n&n=sj10xxxhxxdkcaqxxx&s=sakxxhjxxdaxcjxxx]133|200|Scoring: MP

P (P) 1♣ (P)

1♠ (X) 2♠ (3♦)

3♠ AP[/hv]

 

Board21 A total bottom for us was 6♥-1 everyone else played in 4♥, I cant remember the exact hand, I had 11 points and ♥AKx and ♠Axxx.

 

1♥ (1♠) 2♠ (P)

3♣ : 3♠

4nt : 5♦ (1430)

6♥

 

We lost A♦ and the Q♥ when ♥'s split x/Qxx

 

jb

[helene_t]

Hi Kathryn, congratualations with your good results!

 

3♣ competitive or strong? It makes a lot of sense to play it as competitive but then you need to agree how to show 16-17 HCPs. If you don't play support rdbl, you can use rdbl as a generic strength-showing call, and bids showing shape only, even if reverse or jump. Otherwise, it's easier to ignore the dbl although I'm sure some gadgets have been invented for this situation. In this auction there's not much difference between pass and 1NT, and with a hand suited for a reverse or 2NT you will sometimes want to pass in order to dbl opps later.

 

Missed game: ♦K looks worthless in this auction so I think it's ok that you didn't reach game. You'll have to agree if 3♠ is constructive or not. Here's what I've learned:

- If there is a bid below 3 of the agreed suit (such as 3♥ here), that bid becomes the generic game try and dbl is more or less penalty-oriented.

- Otherwise, dbl becomes the generic game try.

- In any case, 3 of the agreed suit is just competitive.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

#24 The jump to 3C is still strong, he can go slower,

if he only wants to buy the contract

he may even buy the contract in 2C

 

#22 You have a min in high cards (a wasted King

of diamond)

On the other hand, you have a 9 card fit

in spade and a secondary fit in clubs and shape,

playing IMP's bidding game is normale being red

I think I would bid game, or at least invite

... but 3S is not clear, it may or may not be an

invirtation / competitive

And even if it is inivitational, partner should reject,

since you are a passed hand

 

#21 Without the specific hands, it is hard to say, but from your

comment, I would say, that 3S is to much, and most likely

you should bid 3H.

Afterall you have already shown a limit raise, and 3C was not

game forcing, it still could be a game try

And you 4 spades indicate, that partner has a singleton, i.e.

the Ace will not be very useful to partner.

But being in Slam, and failing to find the Queen of trumps with

9 cards is hardly a reason to worry a lot.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[jillybean]

Board22 How do I make an invite here, I thought a 3♥ should show some values in ♥'s, inviting partner to game in NT, ♠ or even ♥ (54xx)

 

Board21 I understood 3♣ to be a cue bid and since we were below game I was cooperating by showing my A♠ We were surprised being the only pair to find 6♠. Obviously something went wrong but it is difficult to review without hand records.

[Robert]

Hi everyone

 

Board 22 One conventional method of bidding is a 'double at the three level'(after a suit has been bid and raised) is penalty 'if' there is an unbid suit available to invite game. If there is no unbid suit available, double shows an invite in the agreed suit and a bid of the agreee suit is to play.

 

Playing these methods, 3H would be an invite in spades and a bid of three spades would have been competing 'without trying' for game.

 

If you follow the LAW, you bid at the 3 level with most hands that have a nine card fit. Hands that are 5332 or 4333 should be devalued when following the LAW.

 

Regards,

Robert

[pbleighton]

Board 24 - I would take 3C as strong (the normal meaning without the double).

 

Board 22 - 2S is fine, but your pd should have bid 4S instead of 3S, he has 13 hcp, the AK of trumps, and another ace.

 

Peter

[JoAnneM]

A couple of comments:

 

1. I don't believe anyone touched on something from Jillybean's original post, and that is her husband's bid after the hesitation. I hope she realizes that it probably was not a legal bid and if the director had been called something would have been done (assuming a competent director). Unlike online bridge where taking advantage of hesitations is not really enforced or proven, it is quite easy to establish it in a ftf game.

 

2. Having a "stationary e/w" table in a Mitchell movement is quite easy and at my game we do it quite frequently. It involves a pair who can neither move nor keep score. They are assigned their e/w number but sit at an unnumbered table off to the side and the n/s players take their table markers and boards to that table to play.

 

3. Every one of my games is seeded. Seats are assigned as people register, actually we have a fantastic partnership program and we know pretty much know down to the half table who is coming and we run 10-11 table games, so we can lay out the seeding ahead of time and make adjustments as necessary. It takes a while to learn who likes which direction but it all works out. And then we have the nicest players of all who don't care where they sit.

 

My favorite quote: "Be part of the solution, not part of the problem"

[jillybean]

A couple of comments:

 

1.  I don't believe anyone touched on something from Jillybean's original post, and that is her husband's bid after the hesitation.  I hope she realizes that it probably was not a legal bid and if the director had been called something would have been done (assuming a competent director).  Unlike online bridge where taking advantage of hesitations is not really enforced or proven, it is quite easy to establish it in a ftf game.

"

Yes I did realise we were in situation where potential UI had been passed and considered calling the TD myself. If we had made 4♠ I have no doubt he would have then called the TD. On seeing dummy go down I think it was obvious that my hesitation was caused by not knowing what the heck I was doing, made worse for me by the opps comments during the pause. The contract failed miserably and they got a top board - no TD call :rolleyes:

 

fwiw if 4♠ had made and then the td was called would that be handled the same as when the TD is called immeditaely after the hesitation? How do you guard against the opps taking a double shot here?

 

Reviewing hesitations or not online is a choice the TD makes, imho there is no reason to treat it any differently to r/l hessitation.