1H-3C bidding problem

[ron]

[hv=d=e&v=n&s=saj2hakq84dt873ca]133|100|Scoring: MP[/hv]

 

Playing matchpoints, you open 1 heart in 2nd seat. With the opponents silent, partner responds 3 clubs, invitational with a decent 6+ card club suit. What do you bid now and what is your general plan? Any non-game bid now would be forcing.

[pclayton]

Its hard to see where this hand is going. I can see possibilities in hearts (xx, Jx, Kxx, KQJxxx), NT, (xxx, x, Axx, KQJxxx), clubs (xx, x, Axx, KJxxxxx) or even diamonds (xx, x, AQxx, KJxxxxx).

 

I'm guessing with 3N. It could be very wrong.

 

Slam is even possible, but the possible hands where it works is pretty remote.

[Flame]

3NT looks best at mp, at imps i think 5C is better.

[HeartA]

For this kind of hand, I would never land on 3N. I don't have 9 trick with my hand, and if pd has an entry and solid clubs, club contract would be better. I would bid 3D and see what pd would do next.

[Winstonm]

Seems to me 3D is clear-cut. This is not the hand to push blindly into 3N when it is so unnecessary to do so. Partner may have Jx of hearts and diamond shortness or may have a unilateral club hand like xxx, x, Ax, KQJ10xxx.

[Cascade]

The problem with 3♦ is that partner might actually think you have something in diamonds and bid 3NT with something like :

 

♠ KQx

♥ Jx

♦ x

♣ KJxxxxx

 

If I am going to bid a new suit I prefer to bid 3♠ unless partner can still have four spades and will expect four from me for this bid.

 

Otherwise I raise clubs.

[pbleighton]

3NT for me. 3D isn't terrible, but:

1. It has a significant chance of wrongsiding a 3NT contract, or even having pd bypass 3NT when that is right, and

2. Pd has (presumably) denied 4 spades and 3 hearts, meaning a decent chance that he has at least 3 diamonds - good for NT, but potentially disastrous in 5C, and

3. As Phil pointed out, slam is against the odds here.

 

Peter

[Winstonm]

The problem with 3♦ is that partner might actually think you have something in diamonds and bid 3NT with something like :

 

♠ KQx

♥ Jx

♦ x

♣ KJxxxxx

 

If I am going to bid a new suit I prefer to bid 3♠ unless partner can still have four spades and will expect four from me for this bid.

 

Otherwise I raise clubs.

Personally, I couldn't imagine bidding anything but 3H with this example hand. For 3N, I'd have KJ9, x, Jx, KQxxxx or the like. With KQx, x, Jx, KJxxxx, I'd bid 3S.

[Winstonm]

3NT for me.  3D isn't terrible, but:

1.  It has a significant chance of wrongsiding a 3NT contract, or even having pd bypass 3NT when that is right, and

2.  Pd has (presumably) denied 4 spades and 3 hearts, meaning a decent chance that he has at least 3 diamonds - good for NT, but potentially disastrous in 5C, and

3.  As Phil pointed out, slam is against the odds here.

 

Peter

I still don't see the rush to bid 3N when it may be wrong and we have plenty of room to find out. Just because we don't have a 5/3 heart fit doesn't mean a 5/2 might not play better than nt.

 

What if partner were dealt: xx, Jx, KQx, KQxxxx?

 

I can bid 3D, and partner can bid 3H. Now I can bid 3S and partner can raise to 4H with xx, Jx, KQx, KQxxxx or bid 3N with Qx, Jx, Kxx, KJxxxx.

 

Partner's bid is not precise enough to know the correct contract - when you don't know the best contract, seems the thing to do is investigate and try to find out.

 

Just call me BidMaster Winston. :)

[Flame]

Peter

I can bid 3D, and partner can bid 3H. Now I can bid 3S and partner can raise to 4H with xx, Jx, KQx, KQxxxx or bid 3N with Qx, Jx, Kxx, KJxxxx.

I like the way you bid, but how can partner know what you expect from him?

if i understand correctly you show a stopper in ♦ and a half stoper in ♠, or something like that, but you actually have AJX in ♠, partner might make the wrong decision going to 4♥ when the ♠ suit is fine and 3NT is fine.

suppose partner has XX XX AXX KQJXXX or xxx xx KQx KQJXXX

I think with this hand he will bid 3H over 3D and 4H over 3S, yet 3NT is a better contract then 4H.

[Winstonm]

if i understand correctly you show a stopper in ♦ and a half stoper in ♠, or something like that, but you actually have AJX in ♠, partner might make the wrong decision going to 4♥ when the ♠ suit is fine and 3NT is fine.

 

3D in my mind is not showing/telling anything about stops or starts - it's simply bidding your hand.

 

Partner has made a limited, invitational bid - you have enough for game but don't have a clue where to play. So in my mind the thing to do is bid naturally.

 

3D-I have at least 4D, enough to reach game, but I don't know what game is best.

 

Partner now tries to help. He can bid 3H as a suggestion that the 5/2 may play better than NT or clubs. He can bid 3S, saying he holds something in spade. He can bid 3N, saying he has a good spade holding that needs protected on opening lead. He can bid 4C, saying he has club cards and by inference something in diamonds.

 

My contention is that if the 3C bid was precise - a solid 6 card minor with nothing outside - then opener could place the contract. When the bid is less precise, more exchange of information is required for the partnership to arrive at the best contract. You should only be captain if you can either ask questions or know where you are going - otherwise, bidding should be a dialogue.

 

suppose partner has XX XX AXX KQJXXX or xxx xx KQx KQJXXX

I think with this hand he will bid 3H over 3D and 4H over 3S, yet 3NT is a better contract then 4H.

 

In both examples, (even the 14 card hand, LoL) 3N is dependent on being able to reach dummy in diamonds - this means a non-diamond lead - whereas 4H has chances on any lead. I would prefer to play either of these hand in 4H.

 

The big flaw in opener's hand is the singleton Ace in partner's known best suit when his hand in also known not to be overley strong - it means communications problems and entry problems. Playing this hand in a 5/2 gives more flexibility to those entries. If opener held Ax of clubs, then 3N would be my bid over 3C.

[pbleighton]

"Just call me BidMaster Winston"

 

Well, your bidding on this hand is certainly cleverer than mine :)

 

Peter

[P_Marlowe]

3NT

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[flytoox]

What about 3S? If pd can bid 3N then I will pass, expecting he has a stopper in diamond. If he cannot bid 3N, that is a great news. Now we can be sure 3N is not playable and 5C looks good.

[MartininBC]

I'd bid 3NT. Not just because it is highly likely to make, but because if partner has bid 3C on an entryless hand, I want to teach him a lesson he'll never forget. ^_^

[HeartA]

I'd bid 3NT. Not just because it is highly likely to make, but because if partner has bid 3C on an entryless hand, I want to teach him a lesson he'll never forget. ^_^

It is the RIGHT thing to do to bid 3C with an entryless hand!

[Codo]

If 3 Club is invitational with a decent suit- and this is how the pair plays it, 3 Club is surely wrong with a hand without an outside entry.

My concern about 3 NT would be more, that he may have his entry in diamond and that this could be gone quite early.

So I will try 3 Diamond, hearing 3 Heart with xx in Heart, 3 NT with spade values and 3 Spade else.

 

I don´t have a diamond stopper? Maybe not, but maybe I stopped a diamond lead anyway.

[jdeegan]

:P 3NT.

Auctions like these are a pet peeve of mine. You know 3NT is a good spot. Why tell opponents anything more, and why risk partner's bidding something awkward like 4♣ on his next turn?

 

The case for 3NT:

a. combined total of 27 HCP give or take a few

b. two potential sources of tricks - clubs and hearts

c. a sure single and a highly probable double spade stopper

d. 10 to 1, at least, against the opponents running the diamond suit on the go

e. slam is remote with so few HCP - hinges on the 'magic' hand with a stiff diamond

f. why tell the opponents anything more

g. avoids partner's 4♣ bid unless he does have the right hand for it

 

The case for any other bid:

a. ???????

b.

[Finch]

Out of the possible games - 3NT, 4H, 5C - 3NT is least likely to be right. It needs solid clubs as well as an outside entry that won't be taken out at trick one.

 

It's quite possible no game makes, but 5C seems the most likely final landing spot.

 

So I ain't bidding 3NT.

 

3H is tempting but for me at least it is not forcing (to the original poster: are you sure partner can't pass 3H?).

 

3D is the natural, obvious call on the hand, and the bid I'd make without thinking looking at xxx AKQxx AJxx A.

 

I think I'm going to give up on 3NT, and bid 3S followed by 4C, if partner bids 3NT. I'm just looking for 5C or 4H. If partner happens to have Kxx xx x KQJxxxx then this route will also get us to 6C, but it's not my main focus.