are MPs tourneys more difficult than IMPs to bil?

[jocdelevat]

Hi all

 

My level beginner-intermediate and play basic SAYC.

I recognize that I play in more indy tourneys than pairs.

My results are far better in IMPs tourney than MPs tourney.

I do not understand why? I think Im intermediate plus when comes to play or defend contracts but Im beginner-intermediate when it comes to biding.

Anyhow MPs seems to me more difficult to make decions when to set or win the contract.

I thought good partnership should show good results at IMPs which is not my case( I play most of the time in indy tourneys)

 

thank you in advance for your advice

best regards

jocdelevat

[hotShot]

You observation is right.

At MP's it any difference between result counts, so if all others have 120 for 2NT and you got 110 for 3minor you get 0%. If others make an over trick and you don't, you MP result will be bad.

At IMPs a difference of 10 does not count, and an missing overtrick wil cost you 1 IMP. (Less than one if others miss the overtrick too.)

On the other side it does not matter weather you get an overtrick all others don't get or make a grand. You get one MP more than the second best result.

At IMP's you can gain a lot of IMP's if you get a lot more points than others.

So if you miss overtricks but usually reach games and slams, you will be better at IMP's than at MP's.

[awm]

I don't think that either IMPs or MPs are fundamentally "harder" than the other. However, there are some differences that may effect your results:

 

(1) I've noticed that a lot of beginner/intermediate players do not compete aggressively enough for partscore hands. This is especially costly at matchpoint scoring. For example, at MPs it is rarely right to let opponents play 2♥ or 2m after a simple raise, but less experienced players seem to often pass these auctions out.

 

(2) IMP scoring (especially IMP pairs) is inherently more random. If your opponents have an accident and bid to a no-play slam, at MPs this is just one top amongst 12 boards, but at IMPs the windfall can push you above average even if the rest of your scores are poor. This means that even weak players will occasionally win an IMP pairs tourney, and strong players will occasionally have a bad set; however the long term average over many boards should still reflect skill level.

 

(3) IMP and MP scoring reward very different styles on opening lead and subsequent defense. Most opening lead books (and lectures, etc) focus on IMP or rubber bridge scoring, where the goal is to set the contract. Thus beginners are often taught rules like "fourth best from longest and strongest" which are right reasonably often at IMP scoring but much more rarely correct at MP scoring.

[helene_t]

If you're better at playing than at bidding, I would expect you to do better at MPs since bidding technique, especially slam bidding, is very important at IMPs. At matchpoints, a lot can be earned by playing and defending the simple 1NT-(pass)-pass-(pass) contracts better than the field. But Adam (avm)'s comment about aggresive partscore bidding is certainly true (on the other hand, the "experts" often compete way too aggresively, which can be costly as well at both scorings but especially at IMPs).

 

Then again, in indys you won't benefit much from knowledge of soffisticated bidding techniques as partner won't understand your soffisticated bidding. And having SAYC as your native language is an advantage in indys as most partners will default to that system.

 

Maybe the fact that you acknowledge not being an expert bidder gives you an advantage. Most of us think we are experts and the reason for our poor performance is that we always get moronic partners, and that attitude may harm our bidding (and thus IMP results) more than it harms our play.

[pigpenz]

the better players have the advantage at bost forms of bridge, at matchpoints the mistakes are more costly cause every hand is equal what maybe be a 10pt mistake in matchpoints can be 0% but no score plus or minus at imps which would be average. Look at the ACBL tourenys at regionals etc now....they have gone to a large number of imp based events. Flighted KO to flight Z and 20 table regionally rated matchpoint events :( So they sell what works for them not the betterment of the player. Remember BAM???? :P

 

so for the BIL'ers the learning curve is easier at imps than at other forms of bridge.

[Finch]

They are different forms of the game, neither is obviously easier or harder.

However, as various people have pointed out, IMPs is a little easier to learn.

 

The very best players tend to be good at every form of the game. However, the world's perception of the very best players is based on IMPs, as this is the form of scoring used in the Bermuda Bowl, Olympiad, European Championship, Vanderbilt, Spingold etc. There are some people around who, while experts at all forms of the game, are particularly good at matchpoints. Examples in England are Brian Senior & David Burn. An older example in the US is Barry Crane who was famous for his skill at matchpoints.

[barmar]

Matchpoint bidding and play requires some more difficult strategic decisions, I think. For instance, at IMPs there isn't a big difference between going down 1 or 2 (assuming you're not doubled) and letting the opponents make a part score, but at MP -100 can be a big save versus -110. Conversely, if the opponents sacrifice against your part score, you may have to risk doubling them to get a good result. And when you're playing the hand at MP, you need to judge what contract the field is likely to be in, and use this to decide how to play the hand; for instance, if you're in 3NT and you think the field will be bidding and making game in a major, you have to go for the overtrick. In general, MP requires you to make very finely-tuned risk/reward judgements, and I think it takes quite a bit of experience to get these right.

 

So IMPs generally seems like an easier form of the game, because there aren't as many considerations. You bid your hand, and then try to make your contract or set the opponents. If you learned bridge by playing rubber bridge, there's not much more to it.

[MartininBC]

Interesting topic, jocdelevat. I am the opposite to you: I get much better results at MPs than IMPs. Here's a few things that are more important to MP bidding than IMP bidding:

• Competing at the 2-of-a-major/3-of-a-minor level.
  
• Bidding slightly unsafe 1NT instead of safe 2-level minor fits.
  
• Bidding 6N instead of 6-Major, and 3N instead of 4-Major when you know you have safe coverage.
  
• Making risky lead-directing bids which might go for a lot if the opponents can find a double.
  
• Allowing opps to peacefully play minor part-scores when you think they might (after competition) find a major or NT.
  
• Playing in a 5-2 or 4-3 major game or partscore in preference to a 5-3 minor game or part-score, especially when the short hand has a singleton.
  

And here's a few things that are more important to MP defence than IMP defence:

• Cashing an ace on lead against a freely bid slam.
  
• Giving up on beating the contract and cashing out before declarer has a chance to do so.
  
• Not leading a trump from a nasty holding like Qxx, in a bidding sequence that normally demands a trump, such as 1S-1N-2H-Pass.
  
• Concentrating on all 13 tricks.
  

And finally, some things that are more important to MP declarer play than IMP declarer play:

• Concentrating on all 13 tricks. Especially working out how many tricks you HAVE and arranging to steal an extra one early.
  
• Taking slight risks for overtricks with cold contracts.
  
• Giving opponents a chance to get things wrong. Examples are numerous, but one common one is to set up a partial elimination (ruff out the opponents' led suit) even when it should be painfully obvious to the opponents to shift: sometimes they don't.
  
• Always act like everything is going well. If you can fluster an opponent by your poise (what? declarer nods knowingly on finding the 5-0 trump split?) you might produce an error as they "chase the set", and going down one when everyone else with your cards is going down two will give you a top. If you wail and moan and gnash teeth, the opponents will happily look for every trick they can get.
  

In addition, players who are better at MPs are players who play evenly. Players who are better at IMPs are players who "rise to the occasion" on important hands.