Lady Milne Problem (Part 1)

[Walddk]

[hv=d=s&v=n&s=sa85haqj863daq94c]133|100|Scoring: IMP[/hv]

 

This hand (rotated for convenience) from the English Lady Milne Team Trials in London over the weekend created problems for some of the pairs. Format: Butler Pairs. What is your rebid after

 

1♥ - 1♠

?

 

Roland

[Echognome]

2♦. If I survive this round of bidding, then I will be much better placed later in the auction. I will bid 2♠ over partner's 2♥ preference bid and then can bid 3♥ to show the extra length later. If partner passes 2♦, there's a possibility we will miss a good game, but also a possibility that we are high enough.

[Wackojack]

I will have a go and risk getting shot down.

 

I would rebid 2♦ trusting that if partner passes, he will something like: Qxxx, -, Jxxx, QJxxx.

If partner next bids:

2♥, 2NT, 3♣, 3♦ I will bid 3♠ forcing

2♠ I will splinter with 4♣

3♥ I will EKB with 5♣

 

The risk is that I haven't fully shown the heart suit and if we are in game plus, and partner has a weak 5 card spade suit and a top club, it may play better in hearts.

[hrothgar]

Modified version of the Bridge World Death hand: Strong hand, near game forcing values, 6 card minor, 3 card support for partner.

 

From what I recall, the Bridge World never solved this one. I doubt that we're gonna.

 

Mark me down for 3♦. Its an ugly bid. It eats up lots of bidding space. It doesn't clarify my Spade support. However, it has the benefit of being forcing. I'm not going to rebid 2♦ and risk a pass from partner.

 

I'm sure that lots of people whave different gimmicks that they can use to side step the point of the problem. This is all fine and dandy and if I had one available, I'd sure as hell love to trot out an artificial and forcinge 2♣ or a 2NT advance or whatever. However, none of this is part of bread and butter 2/1 GF systems. Playing BWS or some such, I think that there are three bids worth considering. (Actually, there are two bids worth considering and one that I like)

 

2♦: This is a dangerous bid because it risks scoring +150 or +170 when you have game or even slam available. However, Echongnome (quoting Roth) sums it up nicely. If you survive this round you're going be well positioned to chose strain. (You may have difficulty establishing a GF)

 

3♦: Also dangerous. You establish a GF but you've really cramped your bidding space.

 

3♣: I find a 3♣ rebid strangely attractive. It has the benefit of establishing a game force and provides a bit more space to straighten the majors. I'm not bidding 3♣ because I think that there is a very real danger that partner has 4+ clubs and is going to raise. However, I keep wishing that I could bid 3♣

[zasanya]

Bid 4♣ hoping P has 5 card ♠ and even if he has only 4 cards "There are worse things in life than playing a slam in 4-3 fit."

 

Aniruddha

[Guest Jlall]

I don't think 3D is ugly at all. I will bid it not out of fear of getting passed, but because I can never show this huge of a playing hand if I don't. If we have a slam, 3D will be a great start. Sure partner may have all club values and a terrible fitting hand but thats a small risk. He also may have very few values but all are working (in spades). If I were to bid 2D though I would definitely make a stronger bid than 2S over 2H. This is a very big hand. If partner bids 3H over 3D which he will do pretty routinely I can describe my hand very well. If he bids 3S, I can bid 4C(cue) and describe my hand very well. If he bids 3N I will have to guess (my guess is 4H). If he bids 4D I will be well placed as well. 3D is right on shape, strength, and suit quality. It leaves me well placed over all auctions but 1. It gets me to more excellent games that would otherwise be missed than bad games. I really love it :)

[P_Marlowe]

3D.

 

If I cant stand the game force (ok), 3H.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[kenrexford]

One missed problem with a 3♦ call is that partner is fairly likely to have 5134 pattern and bid 3NT. I'm with the 2♦ folks. I'm not so sure that I lack ability to show my playing strength later.

[Gerben42]

3♦ for me. 2♦ is just too hot...

[Codo]

2 ♦, 3 ♦ is just too hot :P

 

But surely, I will make a very strong move after the next bid from pd. Or I will say "thank you nice dummy, small please" :)

[Finch]

I'm one of the people in these forums who keeps refusing to make a game-forcing jump rebid in a minor in other threads, but this hand is a game force.

 

3D for me.

 

We might end up going off in 4H opposite a horrible mis-fit, but partner will never play us for this much if we don't game force now.

 

(By the way, if I only bid 2D and partner gave preference to 2H, I wouldn't bid a non-forcing 2S over that)

[mikeh]

I'm one of the people in these forums who keeps refusing to make a game-forcing jump rebid in a minor in other threads, but this hand is a game force.

 

3D for me.

 

We might end up going off in 4H opposite a horrible mis-fit, but partner will never play us for this much if we don't game force now.

 

(By the way, if I only bid 2D and partner gave preference to 2H, I wouldn't bid a non-forcing 2S over that)

ditto

 

If she bids 3N over 3♦, I bid 4♥... yes, we miss the ♠ fit, but I am not playing 4♠ opposite a weak 4 card suit...

[Walddk]

If your rebid is 3♦, you will see this:

 

1♥ - 1♠

3♦ - 3♥

?

 

3♥ can be a variety of hands with 2 or 3 hearts. If 3, probably not a minimum (else 4♥). How do you proceed from there?

 

(You may have a feeling that the 2♦ rebidders are in a better position, but try to ignore that).

 

Roland

[Gerben42]

The question now is what 3♠ means here. Is it a cuebid for ♥ or natural showing secondary support. Luckily I have six ♥ - I will next bid 4♣ with the plan to pass 4♥ and bid 5♣ if partner bids something else.

[kenrexford]

If I start with 3♦, and hear 3♥, hearts are not agreed. So, I pattern out with a 3♠ call. This, of course, would not agree spades, as partner will be pressed for a call with no fifth spade and no club stopper, perhaps a weakish 4234. 4♦ from Responder should be natural, as 3♥ might have been a 3-2 "false preference" (and perhaps even a 4-2?). This leaves only 4♣ for a possible cue, probably a punt bid.

 

In practice, I expect to hear 3NT most often. Now, a 4♥ call will pattern myself out completely, with a slight possibility of 3631 pattern.

 

This is, of course, ignoring the 1♥-1♠-2♦-2♥-2♠-2NT-3♣ auction, which should indicate a strong player with a void in clubs and a sixth heart (3♦ being 3550). Or, the 1♥-1♠-2♦-2♥-2♠ auction where the spade fit is found and Responder invites. Or, the auction where a stronger action is taken after 2♦.

[hrothgar]

If your rebid is 3♦, you will see this:

 

1♥ - 1♠

3♦ - 3♥

?

 

3♥ can be a variety of hands with 2 or 3 hearts. If 3, probably not a minimum (else 4♥). How do you proceed from there?

 

(You may have a feeling that the 2♦ rebidders are in a better position, but try to ignore that).

 

Roland

This is one of the easier auctions...

 

After 3♥, I bid 3♠

 

I will rebid 4♥ over 3NT. Having patterned out and suggested strength, partner will be well positioned to investigate slam.

[P_Marlowe]

If your rebid is 3♦, you will see this:

 

1♥ - 1♠

3♦ - 3♥

?

 

3♥ can be a variety of hands with 2 or 3 hearts. If 3, probably not a minimum (else 4♥). How do you proceed from there?

 

(You may have a feeling that the 2♦ rebidders are in a better position, but try to ignore that).

 

Roland

Hi,

 

5C, Exclusion Key Card Blackwood.

 

If responder is minimum and has only 2

hearts, 3H certainly denies a club stopper,

i.e. no wastage, and even if he has 3 hearts

with add. values, he wont have a solid club

stopper very often.

 

3S shows 3 cards, but the problem with this

bid is, that the following auction will get very

murky, since no one really knows, which suit

is trumps.

We have found a fit, and I will tell partner this

immidately.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[Finch]

3S, patterning out. This round of the auction is easy, it's what we do next that's the problem!

[Blofeld]

But the only thing that 5♣ is going to tell you is whether partner has the K of ♥s. This doesn't seem nearly enough information when you might still belong in either major, at anything from about the 3-level (on a bad day) to the 7-level. What are you intending on doing if partner 1) shows or 2) denies the ♥K?

 

Mark me down for 3♠ at this point.

[Finch]

This is, of course, ignoring the 1♥-1♠-2♦-2♥-2♠-2NT-3♣ auction, which should indicate a strong player with a void in clubs and a sixth heart (3♦ being 3550). Or, the 1♥-1♠-2♦-2♥-2♠ auction where the spade fit is found and Responder invites. Or, the auction where a stronger action is taken after 2♦.

While I can live with a 2♦ call on the second round of the auction, you are absolutely right that I'm ignoring the 1H-1S-2D-2H-2S auction, because 2S will end proceedings far more often than 2D will and is definitely not worth risking.

[Echognome]

I guess it's been too long since I played standard (i.e. not a strong club) to have a good idea about the strength of certain auctions. To me the auction 1♥ - 1♠ - 2♦ - 2♥ - 2♠ showed reversing or near reversing strength. Of course, it is NF, so that's taking two risks on the same hand.

 

Can we go back and open a strong club? :) Ah well, guess not.

[kenberg]

My choice was 3D.

 

Now about the 3H: I agree pard is not a minimum if he holds three hearts but the reason is not that he would jump to four with a non-minimum but rahter that he would, or at least I would, have simply raised 1H to 2H on round 1.

 

Anyway, I now bid 3S.

 

 

On some hands you primarily try to seek out what partner has, on others you try to show what you have. Once you jump shift, I believe you should then describe the remaining features of your hand as well as possible trusting partner to make the critical decisions. How many hearts does partner have? I don't know. I forced him to bid something and he is doing his best. But I am well on my way to showing him what I have. So far, after my 3S call, I have shown exactly three spades, five or more hearts, four diamonds and a big hand. Miracle of miracles, that's what I have. Partner is unlikely to be confused . This is good.

[cherdano]

I agree with 3D (I can't imagine anything else) and now 3S is obvious. Of course 3S is patterning out, not a cue-bid for hearts.

[HeartA]

3D without second thought.

 

After pd's 3H, I would bid 3S. Then I would bid 5C at next turn as exclusive RKC.

[mikeh]

3S, patterning out. This round of the auction is easy, it's what we do next that's the problem!

Once again, ditto